This is the mj-12 series I just got I had to break it down to
30 files it was just too big. Plus my home Paket BBS would have a fit
if I tried to put on four or five files on with 50,000 to 100,000 bits
on at once. Dennis would KILL ME.
You will be seeing this in all of my Pakets, Three addresses ONE is
KAHHB's Phone BBS, TWO is my Paket add. and Three is my Home add. Some
of them maybe at the Top and Some will be at the Bottom. In this Paket
the address will be at the bottom. I am still learning how to use my
computer even after having it for two years. there is all ways something
new to learn. I learned how to ( Name Paste ) and all so learned by
chance to paste to the bottom of the file. So get ready here come another.

( Series of 30 )
Newark, N.J. 07107 USA
oceanographic and physical sciences

Dr. Robert I. Sarbacher
President and Chairman of Board
November 29, 1983

Dear Mr.____________:

I am sorry I have taken so long in answering your letters.
However, I have moved my office and have had to make a
number of extended trips.

To answer your last question in your letter of October 14,
1983, there is no particular reason I feel I shouldn't or
couldn't answer any or all of your questions. I am delight-
ed to answer all of them to the best of my ability.

You listed some of your questions in your letter of
September 12th. I will attemp to answer them as you had
listed them.

1. Relating to my own experience regarding re-
covered flying saucers, I had no association with any
of the people involved in the recovy and have no knowl-
edge regarding the dates of the recoveries. If I had I
would send it to you.

2. Regarding verification that persons you list were
involved, I can only say this:

John Von Neuman was definitely involved. Dr. Vannever Bush
was definitely involved, and I think Dr. Robert Oppenheimer

My association with the Research and Development Board under
Doctor Compton during the Eisenhower administration was
rather limited so that although I had been invited to
participe in several discussions associated with the re-
ported recoveries, I could not personally attend the
meetings. I am sure that they would have asked Dr. Von
Braun, and the others that you listed were probably asked and
may or may not have attended. This is all I know for sure.

3. I did receive some official reports when I was in my
office at the entagon but all of these were left there as at
the time we were never supposed to take them out of the

4. I do not recall receiving any photographs such as you
request so I am not in a position to answer.

5. I have to make the same reply as on No. 4.

I recal the interview with Dr. Brenner of the Canadian
Embassy. I think the answers I gave him were the ones you
listed. Naturally, I was more familiar with the subject
matter under discussion, at that time. acually, I would
have been able to give more specific answers had I attend-
ed the meetings concerning the subject. You must understand
that I tok this assignmes activity so that my
participation was limited.

About the only thing I remember at this time is that certain
materialsThere were reports that instruments or people opteing these
machines were also of very light weight, sufficient to
wthstand the tremendous deceleration and acceleration
associated with their machinery. I remember in talking with
some of the people at the office that I got the impression
these "aliens" were constructed like certain insects we have
observed on earth, wherein because of the low mass the
inertial forces involved in operation of these instruments
would be quite low.

I still do not know why the high order of classification has
been given and why the denial of the existence of these

I am sorry it has taken me so long to reply but I suggest you
get in touch with the others who may be directly involved in
this program.
Sincerely yours,
Dr. Robert I. Sarbacher

oceanographic and physical sciences

Dr. Robert I. Sarbacher
President and Chairman of Board

Part *2 of 30
JUNE 13, 1987
Dear Sirs,
Although I missed youvery recent radio and tv shows, a
friend suggested that I write this letter and share my
information with you. I am fifty year af age engineer that has worked in the
private sector, as well as with the

From 1975 to 1980, i was involved with several investigations
having to do with E.T. material. Even though the project was
very well covered, I am still very much surprised that
Project Pluto nd results have not surfaced yet.

In as much as the project was handled by others, there was no
questoni that the government was in full control. For
security purposes, Project Pluto had five levels. Those who
investigated one level had nothing to do with the next, and
would on turn in the results of data of these findings to
the next level, then go on to another area.

No one that I knew ever had the results of two levels at the
same time. There was only one very rare exception the
rule which took place in 1975, and was in fact my very first
assignment with the project. I was employed by a non-
government firm that of course was directly involved with the
government, and probably fronted for them on the projects.

I would assume that eventually government records could be
made available to the general public, but not from the
private sector. I'm not really sure. In any event, sever
others and myself were rushed to a rather remote place in
upstate Pennsylvannia.

We were informed that every thing was top secret, and had to
remain that way. We were even housed in a hotel close by,
and security people were assigned to us. Some type of
aircraft had crashed in this area, and the government felt
that it would be easier and faster to do all of their
investigation right there rather than to move the remains of
the wreck, and whatever evidence the soil may contain.

The wreck site was rather difficult to get to, however, we
turned it into a construction site, clearing the area, and
building two small and one very large metal pre-fab buildings
over and around the wreck. Heavy equipment, matrials, and
workers were flown in and out on a daily basis.

We were moved from the hotel to some mobile homes that were
brought in for us, and many more top level people who joined
us. I might add that te local people who still lived some
distance from the site, were led to believe that a large
private corporation was preparing to build an electrical
power supply for the area. But it was off limits to everyone
in the area.

We were some of the first ones on the scene other than lots
of security people. The wreck had already been covered by
very large canvas blankets, and large nets were tented over
head to protect the site from any possible air traffic. I
did manage to get a very good look at the wreck on several
occasions. My first thoughts were that it may have been and
experimental air craft of our government or perhaps the
government of another.

It was later suggested to us that it was a new type of air
craft of a foreign government, and it was a super hush hush
project. That air craft was nothing like I have ever seen or
probably ever will again.

The crash site was also something quite different. The
disturbed soil was about a hundred feet in diameter, although
the craft was much larger in length. I only saw what
appeared to be about two/thirds of the rear end, and even
that was about ten feet below the surface. When it crashed
on about a 30 degree angle, it pushed all the earth back away
from the craft itself. Almost as if the hole were made
first, and then something half the size was put in place.

My best thought of this rather strange hole is that some kind
of magnetic field had pushed all the earth away from the
craft at impact. It was reasonable to assume that I was
looking down at the rear end of the air craft, yet there was
nothing to indicate that it had any kind of engine as we know
it. Not even one little opening.

I don't really like to use the term cigar, but since I could
not see the front part, it certainly appeared to have once
been shaped lke a large cigar. That's by best description.

If it was a craft from a foreign government, then we are in
big trouble. I actually held one small portion of the wreck
in my hand. Incidently, there was only a very small reading
of radio waves in the area. The area was quite safe. There
was on the other hand, a great deal of free magnetic energy
in that area. It was very difficult using our instruments.
It was very difficult just to establish the correct time.
Every wrist watch was a different time.
The piece of physical evidence that held in my hand, was a
material that I really can't identify. It may have been torn
from the front of the craft when it crashed. A few of us
compared thoughts as to what it might be, but no one was
really certain. Non of us had ever seen anything like it
before. It was about one square foot and about an inch
thick. It weighed almost nothing, and one had the feeling
that it may blow away if you let go of it and the wind

It was the sme color and texture of the large portion, so it
was safe to assume that it was part of the shell of the
craft. It weighed nowhere near enough to be any metal that
we had ever seen. It even weighed less than any plastic that
I had seen of a similar size.

I tried to scratch it with a pocket knife, and even cut away
a small piece of the edge, but the knife did nothing to it.
The surface was clear as glass, and songer than anything we
had ever seen. It was like trying to scratch the surface of
glass with a feather. Of course, we had to turn it into the
security people.

After the site was secure, the first group that included
myself were taken away. There was a very thorough strip
search prior to us being given jumpsuits, and put into a
truck for the transportation to a waiting plane. We were
taken to another area nd debriefed before we were allowed to
return to our normal way of life.

About three months later, a few of us returned to the site to
remove the buildings, fill up the hole, and generally put
the area back into the same shape as it may have been prior
to the crash. We went through the same type of security
search and debriefing as we had done the first time.
Whatever was left of the craft had been removed and sent to -

Almost one year to the day, I was sent to another crash site.
Everything was a repeat of the first time, except that there
were six of us. Four of us were part of the first crash
site, and theother two were new. This time the air craft
was buried so deep into the lower side of a hill that we
could not get a good look at it.

The security arrangements were just about the same, and we
constructed similar buildings around it. It was very close
to a rerun of the first crash site. Only his time we were
told, "as a matter of fact it was a top secret experimental
air craft that had crashed". I could however, manage to see
the rear end of the craft. It appeared to be the same type
as the first. The code name of the project was Pluto, as it
was the first also. Incidently, that was in upstate New
York, in 1976. I do not know if there were any "people" or
life forms aboard.

Several years later, I had an occasion to be in the area of
site #one. The bartender only recognized me because he
brought in our first room service the first night we stayed
there. There was no room service there, but he made his one
and only exception to the rule for us. He asked me lots of
questions which of course had no answers for, nor would I
give any. He told me that he heard that there were lots of
medical people on the site. He thought that rather odd for
an electric power station. He assumed that there must have
been some kind of an accident, r lots of waste material in
the area. We let it go at that.

It appears that security was very good, and no one had any
idea that an air craft had crashed there. I suspect that the
air craft was fifty eet in diameter and as long as two
hundred feet. I could be wrong in the length. As I recall
the under portion of air craft #one had more of a flat
surface. It was difficult to see, but I do recall the
difference in the portion of the under surface that I could

There were also a few interesting grooves on the top and side
areas about twenty feet long. We had speculated that either
a steering fin had been attached, or a place where it could
slide through from the inside, similar to the type of
system used to lower wheels on any air craft. First

In 1978, I was again sent to a crash site. We arrived the
day after the security people. This time the air craft
landed i lake in upstate Pennsylvannia. We went through
the same motions, and built several buildings on the edge of
the lake to house the craft, once it was removed from the
water. Lots of Navy equipment was flown in, and there were
divers everywhere. The same magnetic field was present as in
the first two incidents. There was no aicraft.

I spent three weeks there in the event that the buildings had
to be adjusted. It seems that the divers had located the
exact spot that the air craft had rested on the bottom, but
it was gone. There was lots of evidence on the beach hat
something very large had crashed into the lake causing the
water of the lake to splash ashore, over thirty feet, and
what was normally a rather clean lake, was suddenly a very
large mudhole. After three weeks, I left and was subjected
to the same type of security as the first two times.
I didn't have to return to dismantle the pre-fab buildings.
I would think that it was done by others very soon there
after. There was some thoughts at first that the craft may
have been buried under the bottom of the lake, but by this
time, we knew enough about the craft to know if that were the
case. It was not - it just vanished. Perhaps it was not
damaged and managed to fly away. That may sound silly, but I
believe that it is a reasonable conclusion. There was some
damage to the immediate area. Six large electrical
transformers, and some other equipment were burnt out and had
to be replaced by the electric company. The government took
the electrical equipment and had it flown somewhere else.

In 1979, I was sent to the shores of southern Texas. The
same type of situation, all the evidence led us to believe
that whatever it was, it laned in the water and flew away.

I understand that over twenty men actually saw it go into the
water, but the days that followed bore no fruit. The Navy
divers had a good deal of evidence that some thing has made
a very large recent gash on the bottom in about seventy feet
of water.

The very same magnetic field was present, and every thing
electrical in the immediate area was burnt out. By the end
of 1979, I was sent back to the very same lake in Northern
Pennsylvannia. It was a duplicate incident as the first time
we were there. It had landed in the lake and was gone. The
same electrical items were again destroyed, and the same
magnetic field was evident. I really have no physical
evidence to prove one way or another the identification of
the air craft. I can only examine what I have experienced
and wonder! My opinn is another story.

I don't really believe that the air craft belongs to our
Government or any other government on this earth. From 1975
to present, we would certainly have seen some kind of
revolutionay change in our air craft. To date, I still have
not seen any material to even slightly match the very first
piece of physical evidence that I had examined. That alone,
would have made a fantastic change in the material we use
today. No corporation or government cod keep that kind of
material quality under cover for over twelve years. If they
had invented it.

After twelve years we probably don't even know what it is, or
how to make it. I am positive that at the very least, they
have two of the air craft hidden somewhere, and probably have
learned very little from them, other than they exist.
However, the company that I was associated with has made some
gigantic leaps forward in electromagnetic forces. Perhaps
they did learn something from it after all. If we wish to
assume that these air craft are not from ths earth, and are
from way out there in space, then my goodness, the planet
must be full of visitors. The air trafic alne, must be
fantastic. It seems to me that who ever they are they have
found it easier to land in the water rather than on our dry
earth. Perhaps it was designed to land on water or a very
flat surface.
I have never really had any feelings one way or another
abvout E.T.'s. I have elected to deal with hard evidece
only, that was prior to 1975. For those few years
afterwards, I could not help but interject some opinions into
my brain.

As I would rather deal with hard evidence only, I am forced
to put all of this on a scale, and take a good hard look at
the tilting of the scales. There is far too much here to
ignore. I must confess that I had some what leaned towards
the experimental air craft stoy. But as the years passed,
it became evident that was only a cover story. Too much time
has past, and our air craft are pretty much the same. There
is no doubt in my mind that we as well as others, are
constantly experimenting with new air craft, however at this
late date, I am reasonably certain that those crash sites
were not made by anything that we are familiar with, and then
again, I still kind of reserve that possibility. As you can
see, I have many mied feelings about it.

Im addition, I have no way of knowing if I had been on every
crash site that occurred. There may have been many more
during that period and many more since then.

I really don't know if any one had ever been removed from the
two wrecks, that I had personally seen. Perhaps they were
only mechanical flights. Perhaps the medical people were
only there - just in case. And/or to test the wreck for any
form of unknown bacteria prior to removing it. Their being
present is not really evidence that a life form was found.
It could go either way.
I just cannot imagine our government or any other keeping it
such a secret, if in fact, they were not from this earth. It
really serves no purpose that I can understand. Also appears
to me that if they were from somewhere else that they mean us
no harm. I would suspect that after all these years, if they
meant us harm, we would most certainly know about it by now.

Even if they were only mechanical flights, the fact that they
could get here at all...so many times, is certainly a feat in
itself, and worthy of publication.

If the fact that they managed to get here at all, and the
physical evidence, the material that I examined is any
indication of how intelligent they are, then I would feel
safe in assuming that they have left us in the stone age. On
a personal level, I have no fear of meeting or contacting
such a being. In fact, the veryifrst time I saw the craft,
the thought had entered my mind. I didn't expect a being
like Frankenstein to come walking out. And for a short time
I had wondered what I would do if suddenly a door opened and
some form of life came out. What the heck! If it didn't
look too bad I may have walked up and said hello just as I
would to anyone else who may vit me.

I would think that I would be more afraid of picking up some
unknown form of bacteria than I would be of the life form
itself. Well, today we can pick up AIDS...so, as I put the
germ fear aside. Yes. I would certainly try to be friendly
once the first wave of fear passed me by. What I fear more
than any visitor is that some farmer is going to get them
with a shot gun and do more damage than we can or want to
handle. Also, some cowboy policeman trying to shoot his
first space man. Because of that I should think that our
government would try to edcucate us as to the proper way to
handle any such situation. That little bit of awareness and
education may save our planet form destruction. If there is
clear evidence that we are being visited by intelligent life
forms, then the heads of our government are by far crazier
than I had imagined by trying to keep it a secret. The
damage of hostile action on our rt may not be repairable.

I'm sorry but I am not familiar with your group, but my
friend was very impressed by your speaker on tv as well as
the radio. Because of that I am trying to share whatever
information and evidence thatI have which is in fact all
first hand data. I have illustrated the evidence and
information as it happened, and made note of where I

There areany items that I have not included in this
letter, only because this could turn into forty or fifty
pages. At some time in the future, if you wish, I will take
my time and write every detail that I can remember. I'll
also put it on tape for clarification.

I was told tht you plan to open another branch in the future
in the Philadelphia area? If that's the case I would
certainly be interested in some form of association with your
group. I belong to no other and never had any desire to,
however, I understand that you are serious people, and worthy
of respect. I regard the opinion of my friend very highly.
He is a professor of physics, and himself a very serious
person. I woul appreciate your sending me some literature
about your group, and your plans if any to enter the
Philadelphia area. I think that you have selcted a very
good location. There are many very serious people there and
a good solid investigation group would be quite welcome. I'm
certain that once you entered the area the support group
wouldbe fantastic. If you selected Philadelphia, then the
assured that you picked the right city for another branch.

Incidently, my experience in the E.T. world ended in 180,
when I changed positions. Have you had any reports of
material that I examined belonging to an air craft from
others? And the ever present magnetic field, do you gave any
reports from others similar to that? I have heard of others
saying that they have seen a cigar shaped air craft, and I
feel rather silly. Perhaps that's not the word. But, to the
best of my knowledge and sight, it appeared to be just that.
A cigar shaped craft. Please note that in both cases, I had
never seen the front of the craft. i can only assume that
the design was constant. I'll close for now and hope to hear
from you.
I remain,

oceanographic and physical sciences

Dr. Robert I. Sarbacher
President and Chairman of Board
Part *6 of 30
April 20, 1980
Dear ________,

I read your letter of the 13th with considerable interest.
It seems diffult to believe that I have finally found
someone that is as interested in finding out the true story
of Project Red Light.

First of all I would like to address the specific points
requested in your letter, and then I will expand on them and
ther items as well.

1. I did not know about the UFO movie prior to reading your

2. I found out the name of Project Redlight almost by
accident. I was __________________________________________
in a warehouse at Area 51 and saw a large number of wooden
shipping crates (the type made with tongue and groove lumber
and used for shipping heavy items securely) with the code
name "Project Redlight" written with grease pen or felt tip
pen. Also on the crates was a stencilled "EdwardsAFB" in
standard mitary type of letters.

3. The article in Readers Digest that I referred to was
about a O that flew over the US from the East Coast to
where it "blew up" somewhere over eastern Nevada. The
article did not state that the pilot was human. I'm sorry
for the confusion on this. The reason that I felt that this
Digest article is important is that I remember a period
shortly after the date given in the article (I don't
reemember what it was, sorry) everything came to a screeching
halt at Area 51. As you can see, I am just putting two and
two together, but I am satisfied that the UFO of the Digest
article and the UFO of Project Redlight are/were one and the

Now for some additional information that has come to mind
since I talked to you.

Your report about the motorcycle riders is interesting. I
can remember hearing similar rumors while I worked on the
test site and I would not doubt the authenticity of your
report. The security force at Area 51 while I serviced the
Area were heavily armed and I considered them dangerous.
There were several times that I was in the wrong place at the
right time and had it not been provable that i was not
snooping or trying to snoop I really don't think I would be
writing you this letter. Incidentally, the security wore
standard air police uniforms but loed nothing like any of
the AP's I have ever dealt with. They were all in their 30's
to 40's, and looked like dock workers. Also as I remember it
the only markings they wore just said Air Police. They did
not have Nellis AFB on anything but a few of their vehicles,
and I believe that they were assigned to Edwards rather than
Nellis. The reason I remember this is that it seemed strange
to me during my first trip to Area 51 I notied a slight
difference in their uniforms from Nellis AP's, and I over-
heard a couple of remarks that indicated they were from

Another interesting point. I was accustomed to going out
onto theBombing and Gunnery Range and had a number at Indian
springs (Nellis AFB maintains a forward area base there) to
call to get clearence onto the range. This was SOP.
However, in the case of Area 51 I called thsecurity office
at Area 51. This indicated to me that Nellis AFB had nothing
to do with the operation of Area 51. Also the designation of
Area 51 was classified TOP SECRET.

Incidentally, although I carria "Q" clearance from the
Atomic Energy Commission as well as an inter agency TOP
SECRET clearance I was investigated for a special Air Force
TOP SECRET clearance in order to operate in Area 51.

At this point I am going to give you just a series of
disconnected observations that I made in the hope that they
may tie in with something you or Len Stringfield may know.

1. I saw some crates being unloaded from a cargo plane. The
aircraft was a super constellation with standard markings and
had nothing to indite it had any military connections.
There was no airline name on it.

2. I only saw the UFO one time. It was on the ground and
partly hidden behind a building and at first I thought it was
a small private aircraft until I noticed it had no wings or
tail. I was probably 1/2 mile or farther from it but I would
guess it 20 to 30 feet in diameter and sort of a pewter color
rather than bright polished aluminium.

3. The reason I know it flew silently is I was present on a
number of occasions when it was landing or taking off (I was
always taken inside and out of view of the runway at these
times) and at no time did I hear anything that sounded like a
conventional or any other kind of engine.

4. I was working on their ______ several times when they
just_______. However since I was there to work on them I
really didn't think anything about it. Oh yes, they would
___________ again just as suddenly. Also there were a number
of times that I was called out to work on ______ and could
not find anything wrong with it.
5. On of the men that I knew were "Pilots" was just slightly
larger than me.

6. Most of the test flights occurred in eh daytime rather
than at night.

7. The radio frequency they used at that time was in the
regular commercial VHF band and was a simplex frequency. At
one time I had the Freq. written down but I have no idea now
what it was. Anyway, i really think that someone with a
scanner could pick them up if they were to park on the road
o the east of the test site and use some kind of directional
8. Before I send this letter I will try to gey a USC&GS map
of the area and will mark the location of Area 51 on it.

9. There was a Radar Station at the north end of the test
site near the town of Tonopah, Nevada. A fellow from my home
town of _______,________ was an operator there. His name is
__________ __________ . We were talking about the test site
one day when he mentioned that he was always picking up UFO's
over the test site but was told to ignore them. I remember
him telling about one that he picked up on the edge of his
RBI on the first revolution was directly overhead on the
second pass and was just going off the scope on the third
revolution of the antenna.

10. For some reason I seem to remember that the Redlight is
spelled Redlight i.e. all one word.

11. I always had the impression that the flight test area
was from Area 51 north because there is a natural valley that
runs in that direction for 200 miles or so Also the area
to the south was more populated. Also I entered Area 51 from
the north and there were a couple of times that was
questioned about whether I had 'noticed' anything on the way

12. I was remided constantly that no matter what I saw I
could be in serious trouble if I ever talked about any of it.
I can't stress how cuh how tight the security was, it was
almost paranoid.

13. I don't think this has anything to do with Redlight, but
I remember when I was a kid back in the 40's, on two
occasions I saw a story about UFO'included in the weekly
Pathe' News. There was one story about a UFO tha had
crashed somewhere and another story about a UFO thaqt was
found in some farmers barn. Both of those stories were given
the usual news treatment. The reason that I am mentioning
this is that I recentlread an article about the entire
library of Pathe' movie film being given to an institution of
some kind which would make it available to researchers. i am
certain that if these film clips could be located they would
be useful. Realizing that these stories appeared prior to
Blue Book and at a time of Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon,
there is probably a better than even chance that they can be
located by someone willing to spend the time viewing a few
hured hours of old news film.

14. More on item #7, the air-to-ground frequencies were in
the 200mc range. I believe there is a standard set of air-to
-ground or government frequencies either just above or just
below the 220mc ham band and their communications were on
those frequencies.

Well there you have it ______. I hope that I have shed some
light on some dark areas. Should any other thoughts come to
mind that I feel may be important I will try to catch you on
the ____________. Hopefully if I can get things settled down
to a dull roar I will be able to start checking in on a more
permanent basis. Of course, should you have any questions or
want further clarification please contact me.


NOTE...Any information that would identify the sender or
recipient of this letter has been deleted in order to protect
them. The original document contains both names and
addresses but will be given to no one without teir
permission. The reason Len Stringfields name is left in is
that he is a known UFO researcher and it cannot hurt him as
he was not the sender or receiver.
Part *7
June 24, [BLANK]
Executive Briefing {Memo}
Yesterday R2 requested briefing on Project "A". In particular,
he wanted update info from [BLANK]. MJ3 advised that that
info was not available to R2. Apparently, White House reested
info because of [ BLANK ]. Can't seem
to make those fools realize [BLANK] info is not available for
any dissemination, per EO 01156, regardless of who requests
info. Contact T-2P and see if he can assume custody of the

Don't allow AF to evaluate IDENT info. They may open up a
little too much. KEND-3 can assist to some extent.
TO: All intereste parties
FROM: Allen Benz
Foundation for UFO Research
Box 182
Tucson, AZ 85702-0182
Recently we received a letter from Bill English which states
in part:
It's come to my attention that I've been the subject
of much speculation on the Paranet out of Phoenix, and
that several people have called my father at his
office in Phoenix. All trying to find out if I am
indeed his son and/or if I'm alive...[please] put
out a message on the net telling everyone that I'm
alive and well and that I request that they not
bother my father anymore. I think he's about to
blow a gasket.

Anyone wishing to contact Bill English may do so by contacting us at the
mailing address.
by Christian P. Lambright

It has been said that there are three kinds of people, those who
make things happen, those who watch things happen, and those who won-
der...what happened...? It seems that nothing more true could be said of
the types of people involved in the arena of UFO interest. The recent
con-troversy concerning the alleged project entitled "AQUARIUS" and the
con-trol group labeled MJ-12" seems a prime example of the confusion
that re-sults from lack of communication between interested parties. Is
there a project AQUARIUS which deals with UFOs? Who first discovered
that such a project existed? If the documentation supporting the
istence of an "MJ-12" group is valid, as some contend, then why does
it appear full of dis-crepancies? These are questions that need to be
addressed before any at-tempt can be made to judge the validity of the

As any good detective can tell, motivation is a helpful key in
solv-ing any crime or mystery. Who would stand to gain by the situation
hand? Perhaps a little of this line of reasoning would help in solving
the current mystery of AQUARIUS/MJ-12. The revelation of a UFO-related
project by the name of AQUARIUS first appeared on the scene in what has
commonly been referred to as the "NASA-telex" [AQUARIUS.DOC]. This is
the allegedly genuine document which describes several pieces of
photographic film relat-ing to incidents at Kirtland AFB and the case of
Paul Bennewitz. As most knowledgeable people are aware, this document
relates quite a bit of inter-esting information pertaining to official
interest in UFOs as well as men-tioning the existence of pject
AQUARIUS and something called "MJ-12". However, several key areas in
this document were deleted by either the original source or by the
recipient. It is interesting to note that there is a retyped version of
this document which has circulated with the dele-tions filled-in, but
with no explanation as to who retyped it or how the previously deleted
areas were uncovered.

Reportedly Peter Gersten was shown this document in 1983 and so it
would seem that it has been around for several years. But if Gersten was
the original recipient he has not revealed where he obtained it or from
whom. This document would appear to be closely tied to the events at
Kirt-land AFB in 1980 inasmuch as it mentions Bennewitz and the Air
Force inter-est in UFO sighting over military bases. Could the release
of this docu-ment be related to the release of the initial document(s)
concerning the events at Kirtland? [KIRTLND1.DOC, KIRTLND2.DOC] William
Moore has stated that he was first given the initial Kirtland documents
in Washington DC in early 1982 by an unnamed source. And there have en
several rumors circu-lated concerning heated arguments between Moore and
Gersten over the means by which Gersten obtained these documents. Rumors
aside, if Moore received his documents over one year _after_ the
incidents occurred then whoever gave him these copies must have had
access tothem either from AFOSI files in Washington or from the
original sender at Kirtland. There are indica-tions that William Moore
received his copies from Richard Doty, the AFOSI Special Agent at
Kirtland AFB. Other sources have also reported that Doty was involved in
an effort to get information of this nature out to certain individuals
for purposes unknown. And so it seems possible that Doty was responsible
for the Kirtland documents and perhaps the "NASA-telex" being released
as he would have been in a position to have access to such infor-mation.
Regardless, it would fall to serious UFO researchers to attempt to
verify if the documents conveyed valid information, or disinformation.

Part *8 of 30
As interest began to focus on AQUARIUS and "MJ-12" several
different FOIA requests were filed with various government agencies to
try to garn-ish information on these subjects, but as recently as 1986
most of the leading figures in Ufology were convinced that the document
was a forgery and that Project AQUARIUS was nonexistent. In 1985 I had
filed several different requests with government agencies requesting
information on
three projects: Sigma, Snowbird and Aquarius; as well as any information
pertaining to MJ-12 or Majestic-12. I specifically did not mention any
connection or interest dealing with UFOs in these requests. With the
excep-tion of the National Security Agency every response I received was
a de-nial of any knowledge of any of these subjects or titles. While
they staetd that Sigma and Snowbird were "not projects of this agency"
and that they had no knowledge of MJ-12, they estimated that search fees
for all information on Project AQUARIUS would be $15,000! It would
appear that
this is a rather expansive project. After several subsequent requests
for clarification and to simply send the initial document which
initiated the project the NSA stated that the project did not deal with
"UFOs" and that as I would not be paying the fees they were concluding
action on my re-quests. Subsequent appeals only clarified that Project
AQUARIUS was classified Top Secret and that release of any portion oft
could pose "grave danger to the national security." [AQUANSA.DOC]

Several individuals have considered the statement by the NSA that
AQUARIUS does not deal with UFOs to be patently honest, and peraps this
is the truth. However I believe that to have expected the NSA to "roll-
over" and openly reveal otherwise would be naive to say the least. It
seems paradoxical that some "researchers" both expect these agencies to
be deceptive but will readily accept some statements as totally
accurate. I believe that there are sufficient reasons to suspect that
the NSA project may actually be the project which is indicated in the
"NASA-telex" which originally mentioned it and MJ-12.

In the process of trying to verify the above document I had ad-
dressed a series of letters to what was designated the 7602 Air Intel-
ligence Group (760AINTELG), as of 1983 known as the Air Force Special
Activities Center. A Branch of the Air Force Intelligence Service, the
7602 AINTELG deals with human resource intelligence, much the same as
the 4602 AINTELG which is known to haveaided Edward Ruppelt in his
investi-gations several years ago. This may or may note coincidence
and could be an interesting avenue for further research. Nevertheless,
in the process
of trying to get information on this group I had been receiving somewhat
evasive response letters from AFIS. In a conversation with an Air Force
source in which I had referred to my problems in obtaing information
on this group I was informed that perhaps this is due to the fact that
"they are a branch of the NSA!" This was at the time my first indication
that there may be some NSA involvement, and was prior to my letters to
NSA it-self. Within a few months I was to learn another interesting fact
pointing to the NSA.

With the aid o well-known research Thomas Adams I was notified of
a person who reportedly had heard a very interesting statement
the initial AQUARIUS/MJ-12 document. After speaking with this gentleman
personally I was firmly convinced that the information he was relating
was accurate s it had been told to him. He related that he had been
told per-sonally that this document had been changed in two ways, and
that he had been told this by the individual who had changed it.
Although both chages were not revealed, he had been told that the
reference in the document to "NASA" had originally been "NSA"! And who
was the person doing the telling ...none other than William Moore. In a
brief conversation with Moore after this in which I asked him if he had
any knowledge of this he simply stated "No comment."

The recent issue of JUST CAUSE also contains the statement by
Larry Fawcett and Barry Greenwood that they have been told that this
document is actually a retyped version. This fact was reportedly
revealed in 1983 to Peter Gersten by an Air Force officer and was eiher
forgotten or over-looked until just recently. However, the Air Force
source who is cited is said to be none other than Richard Doty himself.

In light of the fact that it has recently become common knowledge
thatr. Moore does (for his own reasons) delete documents which he ob-
tains, and that he is rather aggressive in his research, I believe that
Mr. Moore did in fact retype or have this documen retyped. But does
this negate the value of the document, or indicate that it is a hoax?
Perhaps this explains why no one can verify if the document is genuine,
because technically it _is_ a forgery. It would appear that it i up to
Mr. Moore to reveal a clean, accurate version and to finally reveal the
facts behind its acquisition.

According to film producer and director Linda Moulton Howe, she
has had independent confirmation of MJ-12 and reportedly was shown a set
of documents containing much of the same, if not identical, information.
How-ever, the actual name of the group in question was not "Majestic"
but an-other similar sounding word containing the letters M and J. Could
it be that the term "Majestic" was a substitution in a clever attempt to
with-hold a key bit of information which only someone with true inside
inform-ation would be able to identify?
Part *9 of 30
If there is reason to question the accuracy of the information
pre-sented in the original AQUARIUS/MJ-12 document as well as the
information in the recent documents pertaining to MJ-12, does this
logically imply
that the 1980 Kirtland/Bennewitz events should be considered
questionable? Any single-witness UFO sighting has always been somewhat
this is exactly why we look for multiple witnesses and any other
support-ing evidence. If Richard Doty, or Paul Bennewitz were alone in
reporting these incidents thethe Kirtland events would never have
become as major an issue as they have. However there were numerous
individuals involved
not only in the events precipitating the documents but in the
preparation of the docms themselves. A brief summary of the
incidents is as fol-lows:

Early 1980, Paul Bennewitz becomes involved in observing and
filming objects which he has sighted on the ground and in the air
near Kirt-land AFB and the Manzano range. Reportedly his wife was
also present to witness some of the first landings he witnessed
and filmed in the Coyote Canyon area. Subsequently he contacts
Earnest Edwards of the Kirtland Security Police who, over the
period of the next few
months, becomes concerned and requests the guards on the Manzano
Weapons Storage Area report to hi any sightings of unusual aerial
lights. At the beginning of August 1980 three guards report
sighting an aerial light which descends on the Sandia Military
Reservation. This is the first sighting described in the
complaint form signed by Richard Doty. Edwards reports the
sightig to Doty unaware that Doty has aready heard from Russ
Curtis (Sandia Security Chief) that a SandiSecurity guard
sighted a disc-shaped object near a structure just minutes after
thesighting by the three Manzano guards. Doty includes these
reports and several others in his Complaint Form and forwards the
report to AFOSI Headquarters in Washington.

From this point on many other persons became involved. Bennewitz was
called down to a meeting at Kirtland AFB at which several major Air
Force officers and Sandia personnel were present, including a Brigadier
General. Earnest Edwards has confirmed that the hree guards under his
command re-ported what was described, and that the meeting took place.
Bennewitz has confirmed that Doty and Jerry Miller came to his ome to
view his mater-ials and there is a document signed by Thomas A. Cseh,
Commander of the Base Investigative Detachment, to confirm this. Finally
there is the com-plete set of documents which were released by AFOSI
Headquarters under cover of the Department of the Air Force relating to
the described events.

There seem to be only two possibilities to consider. One: that
this is one of the most profound deceptions that has been undertakenwith
the sanction of the USAF, involving a civilian, for purposes which
can only be imagined. The other: that the events happened as described
and that the intervening years, subsequent developments, and misguided
have only clouded the fact. Perhaps there was also some effort made on
an official level to defuse the sensitive nature of the events.

Would Richard Doty have perpetrated a hoax, involved other
officers in his deception, sent the hoax on to AFOSI Headquarters, and
then spread certain information to civilian UFO researchers? For what
purpose? And would he still be in the Air Force if he was discovered,
knowing the
public relations catastrophe that could result from AFOSI in Washington
releasing the subsequent documents? If seems inconceivable that the Base
Investigative Detachment, and the Department of the Air Force, would not
have quickly and easily discovered the hoax and subsequently labeled the
entire matter as such,nowing their previous predilection to do just

A few simple telephone calls have served to clarify much of the
truth of the initial incidents. We must avoid the temptation at times to
"shoot first and ask questions later" which can result in spreading mis-
information ourselves. It is advisable to use tact in approaching wit-
nesses aswe have no God-given right to call up strangers and demand
that they answer questions, particularly when sensitive matters may be
in-volved. Is it any surprise that some of these people may not want to
be bothered by every person who plies them with questions?

A very bizarre but intriguing letter was sent to APRO in either
late 1980 or early 1981 and is commonly referred to by the name of the
initial subject of the letter, a Mr. Craig Weitzel. This letter refers
to a se-quence of events which occurred in the mid-1980's at both
Kirtland AFB and in an area near Pecos, NM and also makes several
statements to the effect that there is a UFO-investigation detachment
stationed at or near Kirt-land. The wrer also goes on to mention among
other things that there is at least one "object" stored in the Manzano
storage area. That the letter was at least legitimately received at APRO
can be ascertained by the veheent letter which Jim Lorenzen mailed out
rebuking the gentleman who re-leased this letter without official
permission from APRO. However, can we determine if this letter is a
total hoax or is there even a grain of truth to be found in the
information it conveys? In a conversation I had with Craig Weitzel he
claimed to know nothing of the details related in the letter, and denied
that he took any photographs. Strangelenough, how-ever, he _did_ state
that he and the other did see an unusual silvery object hovering high in
the sky which left the area, to use his words, "exponentially"! He had
been training in mountain rescueperations and he and the others had
spelled out S-O-S on the mountain side using parachutes and were waiting
for the rescue helicopters to spot them. While looking
for these helicopters they notices the silveryUFO". If this is all
that occurred what could be the reason to fabricate such a letter and
yet give the name and address of a witness who was sure to refute the
Part *10 of 30
Was it just a bizarre practical joke? The author of the anonymous letter
claims that after Weitzel spoke with AFOSI agent Dody (sic) he did not
want to have anything more to do with the matter and subsequentlythe
Dody character denied that there had been any photographs. Was this a
circum-stance that could have been expected based on previous experience
with Air Force handling of such matters? Many government andmilitary
witnesses often refuse to talk about their experiences to strangers
either because
of official pressure or simply for the sake of their own privacy.
Motiva-tion again must be considered in efforts to find the complete

In early October 1987 I had a strnge conversation with an indivi-
dual who is unknown to me except by first name and who initially knew
absolutely nothing about my interest in UFOs. During a telephone
conversa-tion which took place totally by chance, the subject of nuclear
weapons came up as this person indicated some knowledge of this
weaponry, being at the time a member of the Air Force. I jokingly asked
to know everything there was to know about Kirtland AFB, but not due to
my interest in nuc-lear weapons per se but because of something else I
thought may be stored at Manzano that "isn't nuclear weapons." After a
momentary chuckle this individual said, "s...UFOs!" As astounded as I
was I asked for a little clarification, and after relating my interest,
I was told that there are two "objects" stored in the Manzano area from
what this person had heard during conversations by Air Force personnel
in Germany. There had been
some discussion about something which was related to a UFO incident
widely reported in German newspapers in 1981 being similar to something
which "they" had "over here." Because of the circumstances under which
this conversation occurred and the fact that I had in no way even
alluded to
the subject I believe that this may offer some support to some of the
statements made in the anonymous "Weitzel" letter.

A final note of interest has come up in the newly released book on
the "flying boomerang" objects reported in recent years in and around
New York stat[NIGHT SIEGE, Ballantine 1987]. In the process of
investigating these incidents Hynek and Imbrogno were contacted by an
individual who claimed to work for the NSA. They apparently verified
this to their own tisfaction, and while this person professed that his
interest was only personal, they were struck by the inordinate amount of
interest this per-son showed in their investigations and any evidence
they uncovered. There are even indications that their telephones may
have been tapped. While it is unknown if this man's interest went
further than personal curiosity, it is clear that the investigators felt
there was somethg unusual about it. Nevertheless, here is yet another
instance in which the National Security Agency seems to have crept into
the picture.

Do the facts as outlined here cast reasonable suspicion onthe NSA
and its part in official interest in unidentified flying objects? I be-
lieve that they do and that there is justifiable cause to suspect that
the project AQUARIUS which relates (at least in some way) to UFOs is
probably an NSA, or NSA related project. It also still seems that in
spite of the arguments and confusion concerning documents, the
designation "MJ-12" must be considered if not a certainty, than at least
potentially valid. Those who have taken the time to contact witnesses
and obtain their statements andelp, have the best chance to make up
their minds for themselves, re-gardless of the confusion concerning
altered documents which seems to be precipitating furiously. We do not
want to throw the proverbial baby out with the bath water simply because
the fas seem confusing. Perhaps even the confusion is being directed
by someone somewhere. We should keep our sights fixed firmly on the
major issues and the facts we _can_ prove in
our efforts to uncover the truth.

CUFN Computer UFO Network
Document #: 1
Date Sent: 06-09-1986
Subject: 1947 J. EDGAR HOOVER FBI


Part *11
Memorandum for Mr. Ladd

mr. ________ also discussed this matter with Colonel L. H. Forney of
MID. Colonel Forney indicated that it was his attitude that inasmuch as
it has been established that the flying disks are not the result of any
Army or Navy experiments, the matt er is of interest to the FBI. He
stated that he was of the opinion that the Bureau, ifat all possible,
should accede to General Schulgen's request.
I would recommend that we advise the Army that the Bureau does not believe
it should go into these investigations, it being noted that a great bulk
of those alleged discs reported found have been pranks. It is not
believed that the Bureau would accomplish anything by going into these
(Clyde Tolson)-I think we should do this. (Dated 7/15)
(J. Edgar Hoover)-I would do it but before agreeing t o it we must insist
upon full access to discs recovered. For instance in the SW case the Army
grabbed it and would not let us have it for cursory examination.

CUFON Computer UFO Network
Document #: 2
Date Sent: 06-09-1986
Subject: 147 AAF W/FBI UFO INVES.


(B) FLYING DISCS-The Bureau, at the request o f the Army Air Force
intelligence, has agreed to cooperate in the investigation of flying
discs. The Air Forces have confidentially advised that it is possible to
release three or more discs in odd numbers, attached together by a wire,
from an airplane in high altitudes and that these discs would obtain
tremendous speed in their descent and would descend to the earth inan
arc. The Army Air Forces Intelligence has also indicated some concern
that the reported sightings might have been made by subversive
individals for the purpose of creating a mass hysteria.

Series 1947
You should investigate each instance which is brought to your
attention of a sighting of a flying disc in order to ascertain whether or
not it is a bonifide sighting, an imaginary one or a prank. You should
also bear in mind th at individuals might report eeing flying discs for
various reasons. It is conceivable that an individual might be desirous
of seeking personal publicity, causing hysteria, or playing a prank.

The Bureau should be notified immediately by teletype o f all reported
sightings and the results of your inquiries. In instances where the
report appears to have merit, the teletype s hould be followed by a letter
to the Bureau containing in detail the results of your inquiries. The
Army Air Forces have asured t he Bureau complete cooperating in these
matters and in any instances where they fail to make information
available to you or make the recovered discs available for your
examination, it should promptly be brought to the attention of the

Any information you developin connection with these discs should be
promptly brought to the attention of the Army through your usual liason

CUFON Computer UFO Network
Document #: 3
Date Sent:06-09-1986

ST-101 July 2, 1966
Cleburne, Texas 76031
Dear Mr. ___________ _
Your letter of July 16th has been received.
For your information, the investigation of Unidentified Flying
Objects is not and never has been a matter that is within the
investigative jurisdiction of the FBI. I can assure you the photograph
you mentioned does not represent employees of this Bureau and the FBI
has never had custody of an occupant from a foreign planet.

Enclosed are some booklets pertaining to our activities which I hope
you will enjoy reading.
Sincerely yours,
John Edgar Hoover

CUFON Computer UFO Network
Document #: 1
Date Sent: 06-09-1986
Subject: 1947 J. EDGAR HOOVER FBI


Part *12 of 30
Enclosures (2)
Know your FBI
Story of the FBIćNOTE: Correspondent is not identifiable in Bufiles.
The Bureau has had other inquiries concerning this photograph.
The article which appeared in a recent issue of this magazine purported to
be an actual report of unidentified flying objects and has been brought to the
attention of the Bureau pre viously.
In view of the fictional aspects of the material and our relations with "Real"
magazine no contact was made with the magazine regarding the representation of FBI Agents.

CUFON Computer UFO Network
Document #: 4
Date Sent: 06-09-1986
Subject: 1949 FBI MEMO RE: PHOTOS


TO : DIRECT OR FBI DATE: January 10, 1949

There are being submitted herewith two photograp of reputedly
"flying saucers" which were seen at Oak Ridge, Tennessee, sometime during
July of 1947. All of the information contained in this letter was
received from George Rateman, Resident Engineer, Air Material Command,
United States Army, who is the principal army technician at the Nuclear
Energy for the Propulsion of Aircraft Research Center at Oak Ridge,

Mr. Rateman advised that the attached photographs were taken y
______ in July of 1947. He stated that interview with _______ revealed
that he had been snapping photographs of his family in front of his
residence at 218 Illinois Avenue, Oak Ridge Tennessee, late in the
afternoon, when he looked into the sky and observed the vapor trail as
exhibited by the photograph numbered "1." __________ stated that he took
a snap of this trail, was winding the film to the next number, when he
looked into the sky and observed the ball of fire as shown in photograph
2. _______ made these photographs available to reporters of the Knoxville
News-Sentinel and a story concerning them was run in that paper; however,
as shown by the photostatic copy of the newspaper clipping, which is also
being submitted herewith to the Bureau, the print was very indistinct; the
news story did not contain any factual information; and it was regarded
generally by the public at the time as a possible trick.

Later, it was learned by Rateman And _________ that _________ had
made several copies of this photograph and had distributed them among his
aquaintances at Oak Ridge, Tennessee. Upon_________ finding that the
photographs had received some distribution, he requested Rateman as Head o
f the Compliance and Investigations Division, to recover as many as
possible of the photograhs, advise the persons in whose possession they
were found to say nothing to anyone concerning them, and to return the
said photographs to him for transmission to the United States Air Force
Intelligence Service. Rateman advises that he succeeded in rounding up
twenty four copies of these photographs, and that, according to the
statements of ________, no more copies were made or distributed. Rateman
further stated that _______ had appeared extremely concerned over the
matter and seemed quite emphatic that the matter should be given no more
publicity than was absolutely necessary. Rateman also advised that he
studied the negatives from which the reproductions were made, and they
appeared to be authentic in that trick photography should have been
apparent, but from the ______________ __________ ______.

TO: DIRECTOR, FBI DATE: March 22, 1950
The following information was furnished to SA [blanked] by
[ blanked ]
[ blanked ]

An investigator for the Air Forces stated that three so-called flying
saucers had been recovered in New Mexico. They were described as being
circular in shape with raised centers, approxi-mately 50 feet in
diameter. Each one was occupied by three bodies of human shape but only
three feet tall, drssed in metallic cloth of a very fine texture. Each
body was bandaged in a manner similar to the blackout suits used by speed
flyers and test pilots.
CUFON Computer UFO Network
Document #: 1
Date Sent: 06-09-1986
Subject: 1947 J. EDGAR HOOVER FBI


Part *13 of 30
According to Mr. [blanked] informant, the saucers were found in New
Mexico due to the fact that the Government has a very high-powered
rdar set-up in that area and it is believed the radar interferes
with the controling mechanism of the saucers.
No further evaluaon was attempted by SA [blank] concerning the above.

23 September 1947
SUBJECT: AMC Opinion Concerning "Flying Discs"
TO: Commanding Genral
Army Air Forces
Washington 25, D.C.

ATTENTION: Brig. General George Schulgen

1. As requested by AC/AS-2 there is presented below the considered
opinion of this command concerning the so-called "Flying Discs." This
opoin is based on interrogation report data furnished by AC/AS-2 and
preliminary studies by personnel of T-2 and Aircraft Laboratory,
Engineering Division T-3. This opinion was arrived at in a conference
between personnel from the Air Institute of Technology, Intelligence T-2,
Office, Chief of Engineering Division, and the Aircraft, Power Plant and
Propeller Laboratories of Engineering Division T-3.

2. It is the opinion that:

a. The phenomenon reported issomething real and not visionary or

b. There are objects probably approximately the shpe of a disc, of such
appreciable size as to appear to be as large as man-made aircraft.

c. There is the possibility that some of the incidents may be caused
by natural phenomena, such as meteors.

d. The reported operating characteristics such as extreme rates of
climb, maneuverability (particularly in roll), and action which must
be considered evasive when sighted or contacted by friendly aircraft
and radar, lend belief to the possibility that some of the objects
are controlled either manually, automatically or remotely.

e. The apparent common description of the objects is as follows:

(1) Metallic or light reflecting surface.

(2) Absence of trail, except in a few instances when the object
apparently was operating under high performance conditions.

(3) Circular or elliptical in shape, flat on bottom and domed on

(4) Several reports of well kept formation flights varying from
three to nine objects.

(5) Normally no associated sound, except in three instances a
substantial rumblingroar was noted.

[6] Level flight speeds normally about 300 knots are estimated.
Continued on Next One


f. It is possible within the present U.S. knowledge - provided
extensive detailed development is undertaken--to construct a
piloted aicraft which has the general description of the object in
subparagraph (e) above which would be capable of an approximate
range of 700 miles at subsonic speeds.

g. Any devlopments in this country along the lines indicated would be
extremely expensive, time consuming and at the considerable expense
of current projects and therefore, if directed, should be set up
independently of existing projects.

h. Due consideration must be given the following:

(1) The possibility that these objects are of domestic origin
-the product of some high security project not known to
AC/AS-2 or this command.

[2) The lack of physical evidence in the shape of crash
recovered exhibits which would undeniably prove the
existence of these objects.

(3) The possibility that some foreign nation has a form of
propulsion possibly nuclear, which is outside of our
domestic knowledge.

CUFON Computer UFO Network
Document #: 1
Date Sent: 06-09-1986
Subject: 1947 J. EDGAR HOOVER FBI


Part *14 of 30
3. It is recommendedthat:

a. Headquarters, Army Air Forces issue a directive assigning a
priority, security classification and code name for a detailed
study of this matter to include the preparation of complete sets of
all available and pertinent data which will then be made available
to the Army , Navy, Atomic Energy Commission, JRDB, the Air Force
Scientific Advisory Group, NACA, and the RAND and NEPA projects
for comments and recommendations, with a preliminary report to be
forwarded within 15 days of receipt of the data and a detailed
report thereafter every 30 days as the investigatin develops. A
complete interchange of data should be effected.

4. Awaiting a secific directive AMC will continue the investigation
within its current resources in order to more closely define the
nature of the phenomenon. Detailed Essential Elements of Information
will be formulated immediately for transmittal thru channels.

Lieutenant General, U.S.A.

The Seattle Times Friday, May 8, 1987
60000 sightings can't be wrong, Seattleite insists, "The bottom line is:
Don't believe me, but do read what is available." Dale Goudie

By Peter Lewis Times Staff Reporter
------In their most commonly reported from, the aliens have large heads
and stand 3 to 4 feet tall. Their enormous eyes rest under a transparent
helmet. Clad in jumpsuits adorned with insignias, the humanoids walk in
sure, positive movements. Far out? Maybe so, but that's where they
probably come from. And Seattle resident Dale Goudie has talked to people
who say they've seen them. Goudie has spent the past 14 years researching
UFOs and using theFreedom of Information Act to collect federal documents
that he contends prove UFOs exist. The official position of the U.S. Air
Force, for example, is that it got out of the UFO business when Project
Bluebook ended in 1969. But Goudie says the Bluebook was succeeded by
Project Aquarius. Since 1942, there have been an estimated 60,000 UFO
sightings in the United States alone and only 5 percent of sightings are
actually reported, Goudie says. Feeding characteristics of the 60,000
sightings into a computer, 250 different shapes emerged, suggesting to
Goudie that there may be more than one species involved in UFOs. "The
bottom line is: Don't believe me, but do read what is available," says
Goudie, who has dedicated a room in his home to countless files and papers
on UFOs. "The real problem is, no one wants to take the responsibility of
telling the American public this (UFOs)is real." Consider a series of
once classified material on Project Aquarius: An Air Force document dated
Nov. 17, 1980, from the Office of Special Investigations at Rolling Air
Force Base in Washington, D.C., to OSI at Kirtland Air Force Base in New
Mexico refers to a "request for photo imagery interpretation." Other
papers indicate that the request stemmed from a series of "alleged
sightings of unidentified aerial lights" over the Manzano Wepons Storage
Area at Kirtland between Aug. 8 and Sept. 3, 1980. An analysis of at
least two pictures of the sightings concluded tht the film was unaltered
and that they were "legitimate negative(s) of (an) unidentified aerial
object," according to the Nov. 17, 1980, document. Of the two confirmed
sightings, ne "contained a trilateral insignia on the lower portion of
objects..." The document also states: "The official U .S. government
policy and results of Project Aquarius is still classified top secret with
no dissemination outside official intelligence channels. ...Because of a
chance of public disclosure, no knowledgeable personnel with SPA (it's not
clear if SPA stands for Special Project Aquarius, or something else) will
be provided..." But another Air Force document dated Jan. 25,1983, says
"possible unauthorized release of classified material" cast doubt on the
authenticity of the Nov. 17, 1980, document. The later document says the
earlier one included nonexistent officers, and it sought to discredit the
validity of the purported imagery interpretation. When a Freedom of
Information request letter dated Feb. 20, 1986, sought information on
Project Aquarius, the National Security Agency responded, in part, with a
letter datd March 3, 1986: "Please be advised that Project Aquarius does
not deal with unidentified aerial objects. We, therefore, have no
information to provide you on the subject." But when Sen. John Glenn
wrote the National Security Agency on Jan. 7 of this year on behalf of a
constituent who was having trouble getting responses to Freedom of
Information requests about Project quarius, the reply letter, dated Jan.
27, said in part: "Apparently there is or was an Air Force project by that
name which dealt wit UFOs. Coincidentally, there is also an NSA project
by that name. The NSA project does not deal with UFOs.. .." It is
Goudie's contention that the responses about Project Aquarius demonstrate
the government is saying one thing and doing another. He theorizes that
the government is reluctant to admit the existence of even one UFO because
as soon as it does, it fears opening the door to mass hysteria. Spokesmen
for the Pentagon, the Air Force and the National Security Agency either
declined comment or denied that any government agency is actively
investigating UFOs. The Air Force quit studying UFOs in 1969 after a
$500,000 study conducted by the University of Colorado concluded that "UFO
phenomena do not offer a fruitful field in whih to look for major
scientific discoveries," according to Capt. Jay DeFrank. DeFrank noted
that in 1977, President Carter asked the National Aeronautic and Space
Administration to look into the possibility of resuming active
investigation of UFOs. This is the same man who in 1973, when he was
governor of Georgia, said, "I don't laugh at people anymore when they say
they have seen UFOs because I've seen one myself." NASA spokesman Dave
Garrett recalls that agency's response to the president: "We said, 'Thank
you, but no thank you.' We have never been in the business." Dennis
Chadwick, chief spokesman for the National Security Agency at Fort George
Meade in Maryland, an arm of the pentagon, would not say whether NSA or
any other government agency is actively investigating UFOs. Goudie, a
45-year-old freelance ad man and former TV talk-show producer, is not
deterred by the government's stance. Two years ago, he established a
computerized UFO bulletin board - CUFON (for Computer UFO Network) - that
has more than 1,400 members. It spits out information, free of charge, to
anyone with a computer and a modem. He also runs UFO Information Service
International, a global network of UFO sightings, and Puget Sound Aerial
Phenomena Research Inc. None of these enterpries, he says, is a
money-making operation. Goudie says he and others like him have been
helped in their many Freedom of Information requests by military personnel
who want the public to know about UFOs, but who can't afford to be named.

CUFON Computer UFO Network
Document #: 1
Date Sent: 06-09-1986
Subject: 1947 J. EDGAR HOOVER FBI


Part *15
Many of the documents he's obtained indicate that "suspicious unknown air
activity" has occurred at top-security military installations where
nuclear weapons are stored. The documents relating to UFOs dropping in on
Air Force bases have been published elsewhere - and professional skeptics
such as Phillip Klass, an editor with "Aviation Week & Space Technology,"
have written books debunking the authenticity of those and others
sightings. But Goudie notes the government itself has never volunteered
any information, much less any explanations, about UFOs at military bases.
"You can explain anything away," says Goudie, referring to Klass and the
other debunkers. "But these aren't solid answers." Goudie also says he
has consulted with "optical physicists" who have performed "video-negative
photoanalysis" of videotapes of UFOs to substantiate that the object are
not of this earth. Goudie also says he has interviewed about 40 people
over the years who claim to have en abducted by UFOs. All occurred in
rural areas, including some episodes outside Redmond, in Maple Valley and
north of Seattle. He thinks about three-fourths of them are telling the
truth. In many cases, the victims have suffered physi scars that they
didn't have before their encounter, Goudie says. "I've tried to get these
people to come forward. They don't wat anything to do with newspapers.
They're scared to death of losingtheir jobs..." Considering the threat
to national security and the risk to civilians, Goudie believes the
government has an obligation to be more forthcoming. You don't have to
look to far away places for physical evidence of UFOs, according to
Goudie. e has a videotape of an object flying over Tacoma in 1982,
enhanced by a process known as "video photo analysis" which allows the
viewer to see vertical and horizontal lines within what Goudie calls "the
plasma" that covers the tue shape wihitn. He expects the video to air on
Sunday's "Town Meeting" on KOMO. Television, specifically a Dick Cavett
show that aired in 1973, started Goudie's preoccupation with UFOs. He's
since appeared on CNN's Larry King Show and CBS-TV network news shows,
among others. He spent countless hours and dollars pursuing UFOs. His
goal, he says, is to see the subject become an area of serious scientific
inquiry. "I'm doing it because I think people deserve the facts, and no
one's taking the time to do it."

_th Security Police Squadron
APO San Francisco 96239
CUFON Computer UFO Network
Document #: 1
Date Sent: 06-09-1986
Subject: 1947 J. EDGAR HOOVER FBI


Part *16 of 30
SUBJECT: Response for request of Information in Relation to UFO Contact
and Other Related Information
TO: Len Stringfield
1. In January of 1978, I was station at McGuire AFB, NJ.. One evening ,
during the time frame of 0300hrs. and 0500hrs., there were a number of UFO
sightins in the area over the air field and Ft. DIX Army camp. I am a
security policeman and was on routine patrol at the time. N.J. State
Police, and Ft. Dix MP's were runnig code in the direction of Brownsville
N.J.. A state trooper then entered Gate #5 at the rear of the base
requesting assistance and permission to enter. I was distched and the
trooper wanted access to the runway area which led to the very back of the
air field and connected with a heavily wooded area which is part of the
Dix training area. He informed me that a Ft. Dix MP was pursueing a low
flying object which then hovered over his car. He described it as oval
shaped, with no details, and glowing with a blueish green color. His radio
transmission was cut off. At that time in front of his police car,
appeared a thing, about 4ft. tall, greyish brown, fat head, long arms, and
slenr body. The MP panicked and fired five rounds from his .45 Cal into
the thing, and one round into the object above. The object then fled
straight up and joined with eleven others high in the sky. This we all saw
but didn't knw the details at the time. Anyway, the ting ran into the
woods towards our fenceline and they wanted to look for it. By this time
several patrols were involved.

2. We found the body of the thing near the runway. It had apparently
climbed the fence and died while running. It was all of a sudden hush-hush
and no one was allowed near te area. We roped off the area and AF OSI
came out and took over. That was the last I saw of it. There was a bad
stench coming from it too. Like ammonia smelling but it wasn't constent
in the air. That day, a team from Wright-Patterson AFB came in a C141 and
went into the area. They crated it in a wooden box, sprayed something oer
it, and then put it into a bigger metal container. They loaded it in the
plane and took off. That was it, nothing more said, no report made and we
were all told not to have anything to say about it or we would be court

3. I will be getting out of the air force in about two months. Do Not
disclose my name as I could get into trouble. I am interested in pursuing
this and other matters if you need help. Forgive me for not signing this
but I can't take any chances. Please reply to the above address and my
parents will forward it to me or I will be home already. Don't send it
here because they monitor all mail closely and I again don't want to take
any chances.
Part*17 of 30
This file contains the; (1) My reason for releasing this
information to the public, (2) My credentials, (3) The
validity of the information (% from sources, % from my own
knowledge, % from research), (4) The existance of one other
person to whom I gave the information in 1972 in anticipation
of one day needing to validate the information.

(1) I have 2 reasons for releasing this information at this
time. (A) When I first saw the information I was sure that
the government would handle the situation and not allow the
people to be abducted, injured, or just disappear. My belief
in the government has proven false. Not only has it not been
handled but the situation has deteriorated and the incidents
have increased worldwide. What has happened is against the
Constitution of the United States of America which I have
sworn to uphold and protect. What is happening is agains
every law in every state. What is happening violates the
human rights of every citizen of the world. It could happen
to any member or members of my family or your family at any
time. I am a loyal american and have never divulged any of
my countrys secrets and except for this one I never will. I
d not believe that revealing this secret is against the law
as the secret itself violates every law that has ever been
written. Senator Barry Goldwater was the Chairman of the
Senate Commitee which aproved funds for the CIA and has
stated publicly that he has no knowledge of any of this.
That means and it is a fact that the Congress is ignorant of
what is going on. In fact I believe that it is my duty to
expose it as thoroughly and as quickly as possible. I only
regret that I have waited so long. I waited because I
believed so much in our system of government. THE UNITED
to get the information out it became obvious that soon the
government would discover what I am doing and my life would
be in danger. I believe that my life is now in danger and
the only way to protect myself is to go public with the
information. I realize that the information is hard to
swallow and that many people will not believe it. I also
realize that I have exposed myself to ridicule. So be it.
If I am prosecuted or harmed in any way you all will know
that the information is correct. If I suddenly disappear you
will all know that the information is correct.

(2) I am the son of an Air Force officer and was reared on
Air Force bases all over the world. My father was a pilot.
As child I repeatedly overheard pilots and airmen discuss
strange stories involving UFO's, Foo Fighters, strange
crashes of craft "not from here", and other subjects that
were exciting to me at the time. I graduated from High
School in Japan and shortly there-after joined the Air Force.
I finished basic at Lackland Air Force Base and was assigned
to the Strategic Air Command. I was an Aircraft and Missile
Pneudraulic Technician. During my training instructors would
regale us with tales of lonely nights spent on flight lines,
alert pads, and missile silos. They told of strange alien
craft that would come down and paralyse the men on station
and then remove the warhead from the missile and disappear at
fantastic speed. I met a sargeant who told me that he was
part of a team that transported such a large crashed disk
that it could only be moved at night on back roads and fences
and poles had to be torn down and replaced as the convoy
passed. I listened to lthese stories and wondered what
was going on but didn't really believe them. I was
discharged from the Air orce in 1965. I was very
adventurous at the time and joined the navy in December of
1965. I volunteere for submarines and was assigned to the
USS Tiru (SS-416) at Pear Harbor, Hawaii. On a cruise to the
Portland Seattle area, while on lookout a UFO the size of an
Aircraft carrier rose up out of the water and disappeared
into the clouds hile we were on the surface and I was the
Port lookout. It descended back down into the water and rose
back up into the clouds again several times. It was
witnessed by myself, The Starboard lookout, The Officer of
the deck, The Captain, and the Chief Quartermaster who took
pictures. We were told not to discuss it with anyone ever.
Upon docking at Pearl upon our return a man in plain clothes
came aboard and talked to each of us with only the Captain
present. He identified himself as an Intelligence Officer
(ONI) and asked me what I saw. I began to tell him and he
yelled at me to stop and then he again asked me what I saw.
I told him that I ad not seen anything and he smiled at me
and told me I was a very good sailor. He told me that was
the right answer and dismissed me. I soon grew tired of the
cramped quarters of a Submarine and de-volunteered. The rest
of my history is as follows.

My primary military occupation is Quartermaster (Navigation)
My secondary NEC is 9545 (Internal Security)

Uss Tombigbee (AOG-11) Pacific and Vietnam sea duty.

Camp Carter, Vietnam Naval Security and Intelligence
Danang Harbor Patrol (gather
intelligence and secure the harbor)
and Cua Viet (DMZ) river patrol duty
(gather intelligence and secure the
Part *18 of 30
USS Charles Berry DE-1035 Pacific sea duty

CINCPACFLT STAFF Commander in Chief of the Pacific
Fleet Staff - OPSTAT reporting and
Naval Intelligence Briefing Team
Petty Officer of the Watch in the
Command Center

USS Oriskany CVA-35 Pacific sea duty.

Honorable Discharge December 1975 Rank E-6

Since leaving the navy I have worked at several companies
engaged in work for the government or the intelligence
community. Some of this work involved training foreign
military personnel. I have also obtained a college degree in
photography. This is a field I have long been interested in.

I am not now connected with the government or the
intelligence community except for friends that I have made
over the years. Most recently I have been involved in
management of civilian training facilities.

Admissions Representative
Airco technical Institute
Long Beach, California

Admissions Representative
Adelphi Business College
Anaheim, California

Executive Director
Adelphi Business College
Van Nuys, California

Marketing Executive
United Education & Software
Encino, California

Executive Director
Pacific Coast Technical Institute
Anaheim, California

Executive Director
Currently The institute where I am presently employed is
known to 3 of you and I do not wish it to be disclosed as the
release of this information could have adverse affects upon
my employment.

(3) Approximatly 50% of this information comes from
documents that I saw with my own eyes and I personnaly know
it to be true and absolutely accurate. I saw and read GRUDG/
BLUE BOOK REPORT NO. 13. I saw and read the MAJESTY document
which contained the Aquarius information. I was present at a
briefig where much more information was discussed and some
of it has become cloudy over the years but has come back to
me when I saw information on that subject. About 50% of the
information comes from my sources who will remain un-named.
About 60% of the information is backed up by research and
information available to you all however the information is
not generaly shared. It is out there in various places and
o various boards. Due to the potential monetary value of
the information I believe that it probably never will be

(4) In 1972 I related this information to one other person
for self protection and so that the information could be
verified at some latter date should the government not handle
the situation. I gave him the information on the eve of my
wedding. The last person to person contact I had with him
was in 1974. The last contact of ANY kind was in 1976 or
1977 by phone. I have not seen him, written to him, phoned
him, or had any contact with him at all since that time. I
maintained this distance to prevent any accusation of
collusion or hoax should it ever be neccessary to release the
information. I also did it for his protection so that he
would not be involved if the government should decide to harm
me before the informatn could be released. I have him a
copy of the information in the form of a copy of an original
document. I retained the other copy but minewas d estroyed
in a storage fire. He can and will verify the information to
the right person with the right code (which we agreed upon)
to release it. 3 of you have his name, the last place he
lived in 197 ,and the code. I will not contact him until
the information is verified. He can validate my intelligence
background and the information. He can state all of this
truthfully and because of our seperation over the years will
be able to pass any lie detector test to prove this is not a
hoax. I would also be able to pass the same test or any
other test, sodium pentathol etc.

I have also received a call from a man named Christopher who
called from an area code in Maryland. By his conversation
with me on the phone I know that he has also seen the MAJESTY
information and the AQUARIUS document. I also know that he
is a member of Compuserve. That is all I know about him. I
left out a graphic on the reconstructed document that I
posted in my MAJIC file and he questioned the ommission. It
is a minor detail that I did not think important but he
spotted it. The only way he could have known that the
graphic was missing would be that he has seen it himself.
The graphic was 2 lightning bolts which strike at the bottom
of the finned rocket which is enclosed in the circle. Since
I could not put graphics in the document I only included a
short description.

I tested my father once by relating that I had seen
information while in the navy that the Government had
recovered UFO's which had crashed. I did tis to guage his
reaction because I knew that at one time when I was very
little he was the radar Officer at White Sands Proving
Ground. He gave me a very knowing look and advised me not to
talk about it. I have never discussed the matter with him


Milton William Cooper (Bill)
Part *19 of 30
The is on one of many files which I intend to upload that
substantiate the information contained in my MAJIC.TXT.
Bill Cooper

A seris of PROJECT GRUDGE/BLUE BOOK reports have been
released over the years in connection with the USAF's
investigation into UFO's which was supposedly terminated wih
the release of the Condon report in the late 1960's. Reports
1 through twelve of GRUDGE/BLUE BOOK were generally innocuous
and contained no classified or truly sensitive material.
There was a final report, #14 which was widely circulated and
about which an entire book was written: FLYING SAUCERS: AN
NO. 14 by Leon Davidson: the fifth edition was published in
1976 by Blue-Book Publishers; 64 Prospect St., White Plains,
New York 10606. Missing from public view, however, was
report #13.

Several years ago, Bill English, son of an Arizona state
legislator and former captain in the Green Berets had been
asigned t an RAF 'listening post' north of London as an
information analyst. English was, in the course of his
duties, asked to prepare an analysis of the elusive GRUDGE 13
report. On his discharge from his work at the 'listening
post' he returned to the United States and began to do a
little UFO research on hi own. sEnglish had been no stranger
to the UFO phenominon. In Viet Nam he was a member of a
Special Forces investigative tea that went in to retrieve a
B-52 that was forced down by a UFO and all the occupants
killed. Communications had been received from the B-52
befor it went down to the effect that it was "...under
attack by a UFO..", A "...large light...". The plane was
found intact, sitting in the jungle. There was no swath
indicative of a crash landing. Only the bottom of the
fuselage showed any damage, there was no damage to the
underside of the engine pods. Although the plane was
completely intact the entire crew had been mutilated.

English, through contacts he still maintains has determined
that the US Government 'most definately' supports a 'project
dealing specificaly with UFO's and captured aliens'.
According to what he has learned, the US government captured
a trio of aliens, and that as of mid 1981, one of the beings
was still alive in captivity. English also claims that "at
one point in the early 1950's until the mid 1960's the Air
Force maintained relocation and debriefing colonies for
people who had experienced close encounters of the 3rd and
4th kind. They were isolated for all intents and purposes
for the rest of their lives. He doubts that these colonies
are still in existence.

English dictated 2 audio casettes outlining what he
remembered from the Grudge 13 eport. These audio casettes
were transcribed into hand written notes by another person.
The information contained therein indicated what had been
suspected all along: that the US government was involved in
the greatest deception in the history of mankind and that not
only did flying saucers exist but that the government had
several in secret storage and had captured at least 3 live

The following is a summary of what Bill English remembers
from what he read during that day in June, 1977 of PROJECT


In Box, diplomatic pouch under lock and key system. Lock had
been opened, pouch was easily accessed. Standard diplomatic
couriers pouch marked American Embassy Couriers, contained
pouch serial number JL327Delta (JL327D?). Inside a
publication with red tape which indicated code red security
precautions and an Air Force disposition form. Disposition
form was standard white page copy, title was 'Analysis
Report'. Further down was "Analyse enclosed report under
code red measures.give abstract breakdown and report on
validity. Observe all code red measures. Analysis required
immediately'. Underneath were a series of dashes then the
letters NDF then another series of dashes. Below that, lower
left hand corner were the initials WGB.

Publication was withdrawn from pouch. It measured
approximately 8" by 11" with gray cover. Heavily bound,
paper back style similar to technical manuals. Across the
center front it read, "Grudge/Blue Book Report No. 13". It
was dated 1953-(1963). In the lower right hand corner was
AFSN 2246-3. In upper left hand corner was the word
'annotated'. Across the front upper right hand corner to
lower left hand corner was red tape indicating code red
security measures. Aross the front was stamped in red ink
'Top Secret Need To Know Only Crypto Clearance 14 Requied'
Inside front cover upper left hand corner were hand written
notations in ink which were blacked out by black felt pen.

Inside cover sheet was basically the same information as the
cover. Second page was title page. Next page fter that was
an appendix with numerous notations made in it. Notations
dealt with inserts of what appeared to be photos and
additional notes. At bottom of third page it read G/BV Page
1 of 624 pages. Title page was subject letter. Complete
list of appendix not remembered. Title. Some notes on the
pctical applications of the Worst Nemo equations.

Part 20 of 30
Table of Contents, Part 1. "On the design of generators to
accomplish strain free molecular translation". Part 2, "The
generation of space time discontinuums, closed, open and
folded". Part 3, "On the generation of temporary psuedo
acceleration locas". Part 1, Chapter 1, "design criteria for
a simple generator and control system referring to equation
17 appendix A". Part 2 Chapter 1, "ntinuation of Einsteins
Theory of Relativity to final conclusion". Part 3, Chapter
1, "Possible applications of Einsteinian theory of relativity
at conclusion".

P1, chapter 2, reports of UFO encounters, classification
"Close Encounters of the 1st kind", subtitle sightings and
witnesses. Part 2, Chpter 2, "Close Encounters of the 2nd
kind", subtitle UFO sightings witnessed within close
proximity. Part 3, Chapter 2 "Close Encounters of the 3rd
kind", subtitle UFO encounters and extraterrestrial life
forms witnessed and personal encounters. Subtitle, "Colonies
relocation thereof". Case histories. Chapter 3 Part 1,
titled "Military kEncounters with UFO's". Part 2 Chapter 3,
"Military Reports Concerning sightings on Radar and
Electronic Surveillance of UFO's". Subsection 2, Analysis
Report, J. Allen Hynek, LtCol. Friend. Appendix continued on
for about 5 pages. Opening subject page consisted of a
report of the findings as written by LtCol. Friend and his

Must stress at this point that the versio seen was
annotated. There were inserts that were added to this copy
after it had been initially printed. Sections remeered
very vividly are the photographs and the reports concerning
captive sights of various UFO's to include Mexico, Sweden,
United States and Canada. There were also what was then
classified Close Encounters of the 3rd kind. It was made
very clear that these people whom it was determined had
genuine CE 3's were move in the middle of the night by Air
Force personnel and relocated to various sites in the mikwest
and northwest parts of the United kStates. In many cases
these people experienced physical ailments from exposure to
various types of radiation.

One case especially noted and remembered very vividly was
entitled 'Darlington Farm Case' out of Ohio. Case apparently
took place in October 1953. Man, wife and 13 year old son
were sitting down at dinner table. As they sat there the
lights in the farm hose began t dim. Dogs and animals
raised rucus on outside. 13 year old boy got up from dinner
table to see what was going on. Called his mother and father
to come look at the funny lights in the sky. Father and
mother got up and as they got up the son went outside into
the yard. Father and mother went out onto the porch. When
they got out on the porch one of the dogs broke loose from
leash beside house and came running around front. yo began
chasing it out into the open field. As mother and father
watched the light came down from the sky. They described it
as a round ball of fire and it began to hover over field
where boy and dog had run to. As they stood and watched, the
mother and father heard the boy start screaming for help
whereupon the father grabbed his shotgun which was right next
to the door and began to run out into the field with the
mother following. When the father got to the field he saw
his son being carried away by what looked like little men,
into this huge fiery looking object. As it took off the
father fired several rounds at the object, to no avail. They
found dog, its head was crushed but no sign of boy or any
other footprints of the little men who apparently carried him
off. Father immediately called Darlington police and they
immediately came out to envestigate. The official report
read that the boy had run off and was lost in the forest
which bordered the farm. Within 48 hours the Air Force made
the determination that the family was to be relocated and the
mother and father were picked up by Air Force Intelligence
and all personal belongings and possessions were loaded into
U.S. Air Force trucks and moved to a notrhwestern relocation

The mother was in shock and had to go through a great deal of
psychtheraopy and deprogramming as did father. One
interesting aspect about this case was classification under
the Air Force report which read it was a genuine CE 3 and
that for the good of the national security the mother and
father had been relocated to relocation zone Z21-14. Not
sure whether this indicated map grid coordinates or latitude
longitude. According to the report there were at least 4
relocation sites across the United States. Depending upon
which type of encounter these people had, the report
indicated that there were extensive medical facilities
available at these relocation sites to deal with all medical
emergences up to and including radiation poisoning. The
report mentioned a site located in the Utah-Nevada area, but
no inication of its purpose or what it was for.
Report gave a clear indication of reports of human
mutilations, most notably was a case witnessed by Air Force
personnel in wichan Air Force Sgt. E-6 by the name of
Jonathon P. Lovette was observed being taken captive aboard
whaappeared to be a UFO at the White Sands Missle Test
Range in New Mexico. This abduction took place in March of
1956 at about 0300 local and was witnessed by Major William
Cunningham of the United States Air Force Missile Test
Command near Holloman Air Force Base.

Major Cunningham and Sgt. Lovette were out in a field
downrange from the launch sites looking for debris from a
missile test when Sgt. Lovette went over the ridge of a small
sand dune and was out of sight for a time. Major Cunningham
heard Sgt. Lovette scream in what was described as terror or
agony. The Major, thinking the Sgt. had been bitten by a
snake or something ran over the crest of the dune and saw
Sgt. Lovette being dragged into what appeared to him and was
descrived as being a silvery disk like object which hovered
in the air approximately 15 to 20 feet. Major Cunningham
describedwhat appeared to be a long snake-like object which
was wrapped around the sargeants legs and was dragging him to
the craft. Major Cunningham admittedly froze as the sargeant
was dragged inside the disc and observed the disc going up
into the sky very quickly. Major Cunningham got on the jeep
radio and reported the incident to Missile Control whereupon
Millile Control confirmed a radar sighting. Search parties
went out nto the field looking for Sgt. Lovette. Major
Cunninghams report was taken and he was admitted to the White
Sands Base Dispensary for observation.

The search for Sgt. Lovette was continued for 3 days at the
end of which his nude body was found approximately 10 miles
downrange. The body had been mutilated; the tonue had been
removed from lower portion of the jaw. An incision had been
made just under the tip of the chin and extended all the way
back t the esophagus and larynx. He had been emasculated
and his eyes had been removed. Also, his anus had been
remed and there were comments in the report on the apparent
surgical skill of the removal of theseitems including the
genitalia. The report commented that the anus and genitalia
had been removed 'as though a plug' which in the case of the
anus extended all the way up to the colon. There was no sign
of blood within the system. The initial autopsy report
confirmed that the system had been completly drained of blood
and that there was no vasular collapse due to death by
bleeding. Subcomment was added that this was unusual because
anybody who die or has complete loss of blood there is
vascular collapse. Also noted was that when the body was
found there were a number of dead predatory type birds within
the area who apparently had died after trying to partake of
the sargeants body. There were a number of extremely grisly
black and white photos. From all indications the bod had
been exposed to the elements for at least a day or two. The
New Mexico sun in the desert is extemely hot and
dibilitating under normal circumstances.

In this section of the report it also indicated that there
were numerous occasions in which a UFO tracked alongside of a
fired missile and on one occasion said missile was observed
being taken aboard a UFO while in flight. The speeds
indicated were absolutely phenomenal. (English's father had
told him privately that on more than one occasion he had
personally tracked what they termed as 'foo fighters'.
English's father was an electronic engineer by profession and
was fairly well versed on electronics engineering and design
and on more than one occasion he was involved in telemetry
programming of milliles. English's father is currently a
state legislator in Arizona.)

The report also indicated that there were a number of
recovery teams that were activated specifically for the
purpose of recovering any and all evidence of UFO's and UFO
sightings. Most notably recorded in publication was what
they called Recovery Team Alpha. It was reported that Alpha
had been extremely active in a number of areas and on certain
occasions had travelled outside of the continental United
States. Alpha was based out of Wright Patterson Air Force
Base and was on the move constantly.

Further information in the report consiste of such things as
reported sightings and where air force planes had been
destroyed or had combat encounters or had been attacked by
UFO's. Also there were autopsy reports of various human

About midway through the report came a section which dealt
specifically with photographs. Each photo was labled and
appendixed to certain reports. A number of photos in there
dealt with a recovery program of some type that took place in
the southwestern part of the United States. They did not
give a location name but they did give grid coordinates for
that area. There is no clear indication to exactly where it
was. The photos dealt with special teams that were called in
to recover a crashed UFO. It also dealt with alien bodies
and autopsy reports, autopsy type photographs, high quality,
color, 8 x 10, 5 x 7.

End of Part 21 of 30
Photo number 1 showed an alien being on an autopsy table
which is a metal with runnels and traps underneath to trap
fluid and feces. Body appeared to be an little short of 4
feet. Table was about 7 foot. No clothing on body, no
genitalia, body completely heterous, head was rounded
cranium, slightly enlarged, eyes almond shaped, slits where
nose would be, extremely small mouth, receeding chin line,
holes where ears would be. Photo was taken at angle, side
view, looking at body from 45 degrees elevation, left hand
was visible, head was facing to left, body was right to left
position (head on right, feet on left), eyes were closed
appeared oriental-looking and almond shaped, left hand slight
longer than normal, wrist coming down just about 2 to 3
inches above the knees. Wrists appeared to be articulated in
a fashion that allowed a double joint with 3 digit fingers.
Wrist was very slender. There was no thumb. A palm was
almost non-existent. The three fingers were direct extension
from the wrist.

Color of the skin was bluish gray, dark bluish gray. At base
of the body there was a darker color, indicating body was
dead for some time. Body fluid or blood had settled to base
of body. This indicated that body had been examined before
beginning autopsy.

Pictue showed beginning stages of autopsy, following
standard procedure, body was slit from crotch to just undechin and green
viscuous liquid was in evidence. There were
internal organs but these could not be identified. Photos
thereafter concerned specific areas of internal organs of
what appeared as small cluster of a multi-valve heart or at
least 2 hearts within the cadaver. No accurate description
of autopsy report or what was found within corpse
accompanying photos. Indication that there was no stomach or
digestive track per se. Later analysis showed that fluid
within body was chlorophyl-based liquid which apparently
dealt wih photosynthesis or similar process. The report
theorized that nourishment was taken in through mouth,
however since there is no digestive track or anything of this
nature, the waste products were excreted through skin.

One section of report did specify that cadavers were
extremely odorous, but this could be accounted for by either
deterioration or a number of things, but theory was that
waste was excreted through pores of skin. They could only
theorize in report because there was no xenobiology.

A report by Dr. J. Allen Hynek was recalled vividly which
indicated that he had also studied the information provided
by this particular case and that he felt that it was indeed a
genuine UFO capture and subsequently the alien was part of
UFO. Dr. Hyne was non-committal but did however sign the
report. Also indicated in report that he did not view bodies
personally,but viewed photographs and accompanying reports
from autopsies.

Other photos dealt with a number of bodies which were
vivisectioned in various ways. At one point, a head was
remove from bdody and photographed and autopsy was performed
on head. The cranium was opened and brain matter wa
photographed and evident. Interesting thing about photo was
that there was a ridgebone or dividing partition-type bone
running directly through center of skull, from front to back,
as though dividing two brains, one from the other. This
seemed apparent from the picture. The skin was completly
removed from cranial structure and the skull was layed bare
as much as possible.

At one point the skull was cut directly in half and photo
showed under developed esophagus and nasal cavaties. No
clear photo of eye orbs as we know them, just photos of
cmplete vivisection of skull itself.

Numerous photos of flesh of the being starting with cutaneous
and subcutaneous microphotographic plates. Appeared to be
cellular studies done under microscope and electron
microscope type photos. Extreme magnification of tissue


This concluded Bill English statement which was transcribed
from 2 casette tapes. I obtained this handwritten memorandum
in August of 1987 from Paul Bennewitz during my visit with
him in Albuquerque. In September of 1988 I received a call
from Bill Englsh. I asked for a chance to meet him and
discuss the Grudge 13 report. He said that this could be
arranged but that the meeting would have to be on his terms
for security reasons. He explained that there had been
several attempts on his life by persons unknown since he had
made the casette tapes about 6 years ago. We arranged a
meeting at a small airport in Virginia on September 16. I
was to sit in the lobby with by black flight bag and for
identification purposes I told Bill what I would be wearingj.
I had no telephone number for Bill.

As I walked in the small airport lobby after a 3 hour drive
from Richmond I immediatily noticed 2 gentlemen who seemed
'out of place' for this locale. Both were wearing pin
striped 3 piece suits, both had on dark glasses. One was a
black gentleman. One was stationed inside the lobby door
looking out at the parking lot, one was leaning up against an
airline counter. I sat down and after a few minuts was
approached by a tall, bearded man in jeans and a heavy
jacket. He asked if I wanted to have a drink. We walked
outside and he introducedimself as Bill English. We drove
in Bills car into town to a local bar. About 5 minutes after
we ordered and had started to talk, the men I had seen at the
airport came into the bar and sat down. We left for Bill's
house and never saw the men again for the next 2 days.

During the next 2 days I stayed with Bill and his wife and 2
children in a small trailer in the middle of a field at his
farm. I asked him endless questions concerning the Grudge 13
document, how he happened to see it, what happened to him
after he saw it and literally thousands of questions about
the content of the document. My impression of Bill English
was that he was totally honest, that he stood behind his
statements and recollection of the Grudge 13 papers, that he
was a devoted husband and father to his wifes 2 children.
That Bill English was ready to come forward and enter into
any debate regarding the legitimacy of the document and his
recollections thereof. Of Bills compassion for his father
and his fathers feelings concerning Bill and the reasons for
their occasional disagreements. I have tremendous respct
for Bill and what he has tried to do in getting this
information out to the public. It has been at tremendous
personal risk not to mention the ridicule by sponsered agents
such as Bill Moore who has stated that the Grudge 13 papers
are a fraud. (How would Bill Moore know?)

What follows is additional information about the Grudge 13
papers that I obtained from Bill during my visit. In
addition to the following Bill painstakingly drew many
sketches of the photos of different types of flying saucers,
the equipment btained from them including a sketch of the
football sized nuclear generator and sketches of the autopsy

From my notes taken during our 2 day meeting: Bill described
a photo taken of 3 live aliens. Very clear photo, aliens
standing against white tile wall, looking confused as if they
hsd been shoved, were looking in different directions.
Report said that aliens had contacted a U.S. Intelligence
Agency for initial 2 meetings, one at Holloman one at

U.S. Air Force relocation personnel (for persons involved in
close encounters) were referred to in report as 'men in

Major Cunningham was initially accused of murdering Sgt.
Jonathon P. Lovette. Charges were later dropped.

Bill English's place of employment in England was RAF
Security Services Command, RAF Chicksands.

Entire Grudge 13 report was written as if report was geared
toward preparation of defenses.

Report told of ultrasonic weapons found in Germany at the end
of WW II that could shatter 4" thick armour.

Report told of sensitive military and industrial areas at
which personnel experienced missing time.

Report told about missing time expereinced with personnel
associated with North American x-15 rocket plane project.

Report stated that there were 17 different extraterrestrial
species accounted for up to the time of the report.

Extraterrestrials were referred to as A.LF.'s, Alien Life
Forms in the report.

Report referred to one UFO that was recovered and test flown.
T UFO blew up as the 2 Air Force pilots aboard attempted to
leave the atmosphere. English recalls the date as the mid

Report refers to flying saucer program as Project 'Red Light'
and that a secret installation had been constructed in the
middle of the Atomic Energy Commission tional aien cadavers were being stored at 4 to 5
other medical institutions.

That 2 flying saucers of extraterrestrial origin had been
tested in the wind tunnel at Lagley, Va.

That at the time of the time of the report a detachment of the Alpha
recovery team was based at Randolph Air force Base.
The report discused civilian and military personnel who had
been terminated 'to eliminate potentially dangerous elements
to the national security'.

That General James Doolittle had been mentioned several times
in the report with the notation that "His (Doolittle's)
predictions might be correct". There was no indication of
what those predictions might have been.

A short segment containing the quotation, "By presidential
order, certain aspects of research had been undertaken."

This report about Bill English and the Grudge 13 papers was
prepared by John Lear, 1414 Hollywood Blvd., Las Vegas,
Nevada 89110, telephone number (702) 438-8181, on October 7,

This report was typed onto disc verbatim from the original
document which was sent by John Lear via Fedal Express and
arrived on October 8, 1988 by Bill Cooper. I Bill Cooper do
swear that no changes were made and do swear that this is an
exact verbatim copy of the original.
***************************** STATEMENT

I, William S. English, do hereby state and affirm that I
have met with Mr. John Olson Lear, on September 16-17, of
1988, and that we discussed my original report on my viewing
of thons Mr. Lear form or
express on this matter are entirely his own, and that I stood
behind my statements made originally when I came forward with
this matter, and that me personally that this was a hoax is a liar
and that if I was in fact perpetrating a hoax I could have
found a better way of doing it. Instead I have chosen to
allow time to either prove r disprove my claims on the
information on this matter. Time it seems has proven the
validity of my statements.
I welcome the chance to defend my position in either public
or rivaedebate an will otinue t tand bhind by
rginal reprt.
William S. English (signature)
William S. English
September 17, 1988
Gladys, Virginia
I Bill Cooper do swear that I typed this verbatim on to disc
on October 8, 1988 and do swear that no changes have been
made and do swear that this is a verbatim copy of the
I have just met with a man who has been able to substantiate
certain sections of y MAJIC.TXT. You will all find the
following text very interesting. In order to confirm his
knowledge I performed several tests which will you will spot
in the text. His revelations were not solicited, I merely
asked him to read the MAJIC.TXT and call me if he wished to
talk. I met him through friends. This is the text of two
meetings which I had with him. The first occurred when we
were introduced. The second occurred on Christmas Eve and
was the most revealing.

I attended a Christmas party given by a friend who I have
known for many years. During the evening my friend took me
aside and told me that a man was present that he thought I
should meet. My friend told me that because of the
information that I had recently released this man might be
able to give me information. I asked why he thought so?
My friend told me thta the man had been in the Army for 21
years and was assigned to DELTA SECURITY. I was immediately
interested and asked to be introduced.

My friend introduced me to a tall, lean, fit man who was in
his late 60's. I was impressed with his physical fitness.
His hair was grey and he stood with the bearing of one who
had spent many years with the military. He was mentally
sharp and showed no effects of his age.

After we had been introduced I told him that I too had spent
many years in military service, the Navy. I asked him where
he had been stationed. He replied that he had spent a lot of
time in Colorado, Mew Mexico, Nevada, and at Edwards Air
Force Base. I commented that I thought it strange that an
Army man would be stationed at Edwards. "Oh, he said, I was
with Delta Security and we had a lot to do with intra-service
projects." "We provided security for several services." I
then asked him if he had ever heard of Project REDLIGHT. His
eyes narrowed and he seemed uncomfortable. In fact he looked
around the room as if looking for somewhere else to go. "I
may have, he replied, but you know from your Navy days that I
can't discuss what I was involved with." I told him that in
a way I was involved with it also and then I told him that I
was with Naval Intelligence for a time. We exchanged small
talk but clearly he was uncomfortable since my mention of
REDLIGHT. I excused myself then found my friend again. I
asked my friend if he still had his copy of my MAJIC.TXT and
if he did would he get it for me. He left the room and then
came back and handed me the file.

I waited until I saw that the Ex-Army man was leaving and
then went out to his car with him. I asked him if he would
look at something that I would draw. He said yes but really
had to leave. On the back of the MAJIC.TXT file I drew the
TRILATERAL insignia. I said nothing. He grabbed the file
and asked me where I had seen the insignia. I told him I had
seen it while with Naval Intelligence and asked him if he
knew what it was. "Yes, he said, it is on a piece of
equipment. Do you know what the equipment is?" I told him
that it makes nosound. "You know then what REDLIGHT really
is, he said." I replied that I did. I told him that the
papers he held was a file explaining the whole thing and that
I would like him to read it and then cl me if he would be
willing to talk to me about his experiences. I told him that
I have never revealed sources and would never reveal him as
the source of the information. He looked me right in the eye
and said, "If you even tell anyone about this conversation I
will call you a liar right to your face." I told him that I
understood fully. I asked him how long he had known my
friend. He said he had known him for about 7 years. I told
him to as our mutual friend about me so that he would feel
more comfortable about me. He took the file and left.

A few days later he called me and asked to meet me during the
day at a local park on Christmas Eve. We arranged the time
and met at a picnic table at the park.

The first thing that he said was that he never wanted his
name connected with anything that I ever did or said and that
he never wanted to see me again after our meeting. I agreed
to those terms. He then gave me his telephone number and
asked me to call him if I ever thought that his identity had
been compromised in any way. I agreed to that also.

I then asked him why he had agreed to talk to me about his
involvement. "For the same reason that you are talking about
it, he replied, the whole thing is very grim and it won't get
better." I asked him if he wanted me to ask questions or if
he would just like to narrate. He told me to ask questions
and when I pulled out my tape recorder he told me not to use
it because voice identification was possible. I knew that
this was possible and again consented to his terms. I asked
if I could take notes and he agreed to notes only.
Bill----Where did you see the TRILATERAL INSIGNIA that I drew
for you at the party and that you saw in my file?

Man-----On a flying saucer that I guarded at Edwards Air
Force Base. I saw it again on different saucers when
I was at Area 51 in Nevada....Your file is pretty
accurate as to what I know....I was surprised by the
extent of your knowledge.

Bill----I saw some of the information and have other sources.
That file is the product of 17 years of searching.
In fact a lot of it came from doing what we are doing
now, just talking to people. Can you tell me how you
came to see the saucer at Edwards?

Man-----I was assigned to guard a hanger at Edwards, at the
time I didn't know what was in it.

Bill----What was the name of the hanger?

Man-----The hanger had no number or name. We called it the
Delta hanger.

Bill----Can you tell me where it is located?

Man-----It is on the North Base. Its the only hanger off by
itself and no one is alowed near it without a
special badge and clearance.

Bill----What does the badge look like?

Man-----It is a red badge with a black triangle on the face
of it and personal information on the back....like
any other ID.

Bill----How did you see the saucer?

Man-----The hanger is only entered through one door. Inside
the door is the guard room. On the other side of the
guard room is a door that goes into an office. On
the other side of the office is another door. We
were not allowed out of the guard room but one night
the duty officer asked me if I knew what I was
guarding. I said no that it was not my job to know.
He asked me if I would like to see. I thought he was
checking me out and told him it wasn't necessary. He
motioned for me to follow him and then took me
through the office and into the hanger. I saw the
saucer sitting on legs and it seemed to have jacks
under it also.

Bill----Can you describe it for me?

Man-----It was about 30 feet in diameter, metal but not
shiny. Like tarnished silver.

Bill----How thick was it?

Man-----Aout 15 to 18 feet thick.......It had the insignia
on the underside and again on the top.

Bill----Did you see any openings?

Man-----No but I only saw one side and it was only for about
3 or 4 minutes.

Bill----Was it round?

Man-----Oh yes...just like the movies.

Bill----Were there any windows?

Man-----There was what looked to be windows around the raised
portion but I could not see inside.

Bill----Were they round?

Man-----No, they were rectangular....I also saw a groove
around the saucer about 4 feet from the edge all the
way around and it was on the top and bottom. There
was an area on the bottom that looked like vents or

Bill----What did the Officer say to you?

Man-----Only that he did not show me anything and we went
bac to the guard room then he left.

Bill----Isn't that unusual?

Man-----Everything I did or saw on Delta was unusual. I saw
people break down and cry for no reason at times.
When things like that occurred you would never see
that man again.

Bill----What happened to them?

Man-----I don't know and didn't ask.

Bill----Lets deviate from this for awhile. Do you mind?

Man-----No, I don't.

Bill----How did you get into Delta security?

Man-----I was recruited into the National Recon Organization
and went to Fort Carson Colorado. After a lot of
training I was screened for Delta and then assid
to Delta.
Bill----Why did they recruit you?

Man-----I was told that it was because I was an orphan. If
something happens to someone connected to a secret
project and they have family, the family could
compromise the project in just trying to find out
what happened to their loved one.

Bill----Is everyone in Delta orphans?

Man-----Just about, either that or their family died or was
killed later in life.

Bill----Didn't that bother you? I mean what could be so
secret that they have to use orphans?

Man-----Some of the things I've seen......The stories...
especially concerning dreamland....Did you know there
are bouny hunters connected with dreamland?

Bill----What do yo mean?

Man-----If you work at Dreamland and go on leav or pass and
are not back on time or if someone doesn't come back
they send bounty hunters after you.......Thats where
the visitors...you know what I mean... live....there
is an underground facility.......I don't think I
should say anymore.....Most of the time I was there I
can't even remember anyway.....We were supposed to
talk about Redlight.

Bill----I don't remember agreeing to talk only about
Redlight....Is this a new condition?

Man-----Yes, I don't want to talk about anything else........
I will tell you that very strange things happen at

Bill----What do you mean when you say you can't remember?

Man-----I can't remember....I really don't want to talk about
Dreamland.....I won't talk about it.

Bill----Please don't tantalize me. Either talk about it or
don't but don't do this to me. What else can you say
about Dreamland? Can you tell me where it is?

Man-----No, I can't talk about it. This is all very
dangerous and I am married now.....I just can't take
a chance.

Bill----Ok, tell me about Area 51.
Man-----Area 51 is at Groom Lake in Nevada. Its the
headquarters of Redlight.......The saucers are flown
there. Its part of the test range...Its on the map..
its just a dry lake bed with a Top Secret
installation built on and around it.

Bill----Have you seen one fly?

Man-----Yes, they are incredibly fast and make no noise at

Bill----Is the one at Area 51 the same as the one at Edwards?

Man-----One was the same....the other one I saw looks like a
diamond.......like in a womans engagement ring.....if
you take the diamond out of a ring and turn it upside
down......thats what it looks like.

Bill----You mean literally like a diamond?

Man-----No, but the shape is the same.....it really
glows....but only when it flys. Onthe ground it is
the sae metal as the saucer at Edwards....when it
flys it glows like the sun and sometimes changes

Bill----How close were you when you sa it?

Man-----Not close...no one was allowed to get close....
I think it emmitted radiation because we were all
required to wear dosimeters and they had to be
checked daily.

Bill----You mean it was atomic powered?

Man-----I don't know.....I only know there was a definate
radiation hazard and our dosimeters were checked
daily. We turned them in to be checked and were
issued new ones every day.

Bill---How long did you stay at Area 51?

Man-----The first time was for 3 months....Nobody ever stayed
more han a few months. The second time I was there
was for almost 5 months.....its like wartime there
were no passes while at Area 51....we had excellent
recreation facilitys though.

ill----I hate to press you but I would like to know more
about Dreamland. My information seems to conflict
with yours. I have information that the Alien base
is in New Mexico, is that where Dreamland is?

Man-----There is more than one base and I have to go now....
I should not be talking to you about anything at all.
Its all too dangerous....even more than you
think.....I don't know everything but I know that its
way out of control and to tell you the truth I'm
afraid of what is going tohappen.....Don't ask me
what because I don't know but........I know something
is going to happen.......Giant underground shelters
are being built under Groom Lake.....and in other
places. From reading your paper you know more about
a lot of this than I do....I really do have to go
now....Its Christmas Eve and I live a ways off.

Bill----Before you go would you look over these notes and
make sure they're right?

Man-----I watched you write and its right. What are you
going to do with those notes?

Bill----I'll make a file and release this in the form of an
interview without identifying you.

Man-----If you do I'll call you a liar.

Bill----I won't identify you and just so you will feel better
I have never identified any of my sources. If you
ever want to talk again you have my phone nuber.

Man-----I don't think so....you had better be real careful...
I mean about yourself....I really wouldn't give
anyone else those notes....You should think about it.

Bill----What do you think will happen?

Man-----The same thing that has happened to ......some others
.......you should just drop it.....you....nobody can
do anything.

The rest was justarting conversation. He seemed to be very
sincere and very worried about what he was telling and
worried about my safety as well as his own.

This is the second person who has described a saucer at
Edwards, the same security badge, and reference to Dreamland
keeps coming up with these people. This is the first time I
have heard that there is more than one alien base and it is
the first time I have hard of bounty hunters. I think the
reference to a radiation hazard and the use of dosemeters is
also significant in view of the incident in Texas involving
the two women. John Lear told me that Dreamland was at
Edwards. Personally I do not know the location. Just the
name "DREAMLAND" is so far away from the normal military
trendof nami ng projects and places that it provokes
questions. I would like to point out that at one point my
sources told me the alien base was at Dreamland then they
told me it wasn't true and backed away from it. The name
keeps cropping up in connection with the alien base.
Reference to loss of memory is also common with abductees. I
found this interview to be personally disturbing.

Where possible I wrote down theques tioss and answers and
those are written exactly a asked and as answered. At some
points the conversation is reconstructed from my notes but
was done as soon as I arrived home and I am certain that it
is accurate. Having just met this man I have no clue as to
hi motives or to the accuracy of the information. However I
do believe he was sincere and the range of emotions he
expressed would have been difficult for even a very good
professional actor.

(NOTE! A "dosemeter" is (or was when I was in service) a
piece of film in a small badge that is worn by personnel when
working in areas where they may be exposed to radiation.
If the film is hit by a dose of radiation it is exposed. The
amount of film exposure determines the exact dose of
radiation. When I was in the Strategic Air Command I had to
wear one because the alert pad aircraft carried nuclear
weapons. Our dosemeters were checked weekly. If the
dosemeter indicated that you had been exposed to radiation
then you had to go through a decontamination procedure.
During my time in service my dosemeter never indicated any
exposure to radiation. This explanation is offered for those
of you who may not have known what a dosemeter is.)
\ * /
\ * /
\ * /
\ * /
\ * /
O * O
/ * \
/ * \
/ * \
/ * \
/ * \
/ * \
/ * \
/ * \

This is another TRILATERAL INSIGNIA that appeared in the
MAJESTY papers. It is worn on the alien uniforms (like one
piece tight coveralls). It is also displayed on various
alien craft. The astericks down the middle should be a
straight line but I was unable to do that on my computer.
The O's are really small circles but could not do that on my
computer either. The triangle should be equilatral but again
I could not do that on my computer. I do not know what
this means. It has also been seen from the air at some
landing sites.

\ /
\ /
\ /
\ /
\ /
\ /
/ * \
/ * \
/ * \
/ * \
/ * \
/ * \
/ * \
/ * \
/ * \

This insignia is used to mark landing sites and bases it is
layed out so as to be seen from the air above the site. The
same notes apply to this insignia. I do not know what it

Robert _____ ______, a young man in his early 20's came to
work at my shop as temporary help during the 2nd week of
October 1986. The first day at work, he approached me asking
about my interest in the UFO phenomenon Then he smiled,
paused, and waited for my reaction. I told him that I was
interested, particularly in the crash/recovery of saucers and
bodies of occupants. That I was secondly interested in the
rumors pertaining to an "alien" and intelligence group
alliance set up years ago.

He then told me he would reveal something to me pertaining to
my second interest as mentioned above. He told me the
following (condensed by me):

1. He was in the military headquartered with the 4th
Enginering eGroup at Fort Carson, Colorado. Just got out 2
months prior to the date of telling me this.

2. He showed me a military I.D. card from Fort Carson and
another with a strange checker board design on it.

3. He said he had a Super Top Secret clearance and worke
as a laboratory assistant in southwestern Colorado associated
with the Delta Group out of Fort Carson.

4. He witnessed cryogenic experimentation going onwith
human beings. This experimentation was conducted by both
"aliens" and some Super Secret intelligence group.

5. "Some high ranking military and scientific personnel were
taken down to cryogenic temperatures through a process of
draining their blood and pumping a chemical mixtur into the
circulatory system to prevent cell destruction during the
freezing and thawing periods." "The "aliens" were he only
ones who knew the mixture formula and the gradual thawing
process. They at first refused to give the formula and
process to the scientific team, and threatened to leave the
above mentioned personnel in that cryogenic state forever
unless the scientists cooperated on some certain issues."

6. He also told me about some "alien" technics concerning
time travel, Dimensional travel, related to unified field

After revealing these seemingly fantastic things to me over a
3 week period of time he quit the temporaryfob here. I
finally found out that his father Robert _________ Sr.
(Robert used to be Robert _________ Jr. before his fther and
mother divorced and he took the name of his mothers second
husband, ______.) worked with me in the metal finishing
department. The following was told to me by Robert _________
Sr. on Dec 16, 1986:

"On the evening of Wednesday, Dec. 3, 1986, my son Robert
______ called me via the telephone (he hadn't been home for
over a week) he soundeed as if he were scared to death. He
said I have to go back to Colorado immediatly. I asked
why. He said, The bounty hunters found me and told me that
I had to go back with them to the base in Colorado because I
know to much. I asked if there were any way he could beat
them and get out of it? Robert stated, They said there is
no way out. In fact the chief bounty hunter confronted me
face to face.

Evidently Robert Jr. tried to beat the bounty hunters. His
alleged body was found in room #5 of the Walls Motel in Long
Beach, California, with a gun in his hand and a bullet hole
through his head. Drugs were found in the room, but not in
his body. (he was not the drug type).

The Long Beach Police Dept. investigated the case which ended
very abruptly with no explanation. When I asked them why the
case was closed so quickly, they snapped back, Its none of
your business. The final autopsy report stated that the
death was a drug related suicide.

I was not allowed to see the body fr one solid eek. I
would call the police, they would say the body was at the
funeral parlor. The funeral par would say we don't have
the body. This went on back and forth for that one solid
week. (Dec. 5th - Dec. 12th, 1986) When I was finally
allowed to view the body, I immediatly could tell it was not
him!! This body, alleged to be Robert ______, was about 20
Lbs heavier and about 3 to 4 inches shorter than my son.
That was not Robert even tho the basic facial feature's were

One very significant thing that Robert stated to me before
his alleged death was, Dad, they are comming to take me
away. I will give you a code name ______________ (only
Robert and his father know that code name). If you receive a
letter, telephone call, or by messenger, sometime in the
future, this code name, you will know that I am alive. They
need e for mmy special DNA, that is why I have to go back.

Robert has special Occult Powers and has an interest in witch
craft. he says all of this UFO stuff is directly related to
witch craft and the occult.

In February - April 1987 both Robert _________ Sr. and myself
were under surveillance by what we considerd an agent from
the cover-up group. He went by the name of John Chunn. We
finally confronted him face to face concerning all of this.
Needless to say he quit work that day and never came back.
Robert Sr. has been harassed several times by an individual
who wanted Robert Sr. to go to the 4 corners area with him .
On April 16, 1987, he said he would reunite him with his son.
_________ backed out the last minute.

Later Robert Sr. was picked up he police for no reason at
all and held for one week. When he hot back home he found
out that his place had been ransacked.

On Nov. 9, 1987, a person riding a motercycle and dressed
like a biker approached _________ identifying himsself as Lt.
eed or Reade and claimed that he had a Top Secret clearance
and had access to the files pertaining to the projects that
his son was still involved in. He said that hewould p lace
_________ in touch with Robert ______ and said he was working
in an underground base. He said you cannot find this base on
any maps or in any military directories.

Robert ______ was in th following unit.

FBG 31905
Fort Carson, Colorado

His Cmmanding Officer was Capt. Dana _. ______

Well ____ there it is for what it is worth. You can get in
touch with Robert Sr. at _________________________________

(NOTE! All names addresses and phone numbers are in the
original document and all of this information checks out with
the Long Beach Police Dept. and with Robert Sr. whom I have
talked to. The information aas sentto a friend of mine in
exactly this form and he forwarded it to me in exactly the
form that I have typed it to disc. Bill Cooper)


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